Sunday, November 12, 2006

Gog, Magog & Demagog - The End of "Israel"

This posting comes after a long string of comments, replies on a posting called:David-Stone: Defensive Rolling Stone.

The argument started with a call to a 2 state solution between Palestine & "Israel" that will eventually grow into one state, and with demographics and wisdom, will integrate in the region. Otherwise, the results on the human level are catastrophic. In short, "Israel" should integrate (gradually), or disintegrate by force.

We finally agreed that we are enemies, and that there is no love lost between us.


  1. Now I am confused. What was wrong with my answers? I thought we were discussing the propoganda faults of Israel. What are they?

  2. Poor Ephraim, you made me laugh with "now I'm confused," and I felt a bit sorry! Don’t rejoice, I'm over it now.

    I was simply making an introduction to the follow up commentary and quick terms of reference, it was not the topic.

    I mean that we certainly agreed we are enemies. That came after a long time of faking trying to look like nice friends-in-the-making. I think that is over and done with, and a reason to rejoice that we finally reached ONE agreement.

    I have to warn you, the Propaganda dishing is not my favorite topic – I mean its horrible enough to have to hear it, much less dissect it!! Another warning, Rhiannon will fall on you like a ton of Zionist Propaganda.

    I will leave to Rhiannon or to yourself to pick a topic of the Zionist Propaganda. I mean we have no shortage of that!

  3. Ok, there's a topic:
    "Israel" is an outpost of enlightened Western values in the Middle East.

  4. Fadi,
    You are a master at general unsubstantiated claims. But really, all your arguments are lame in the rare case you attmept one. You talk about what you will do next without doing anything. You warn and rant but it is all hot air and no argument.

    Pick one propaganda point and make an argument supporting it if you can. And if you really have an answer for the 1947 question, show me the answer instead of just claiming you have it.

    Whenever I invite you to discuss a single point you run away. Just choose a point or ask Rhianoon to choose one and let's discuss it. What are you scared of except showing that you have no leg to stand on?

    By the way, we stopped being friends when I saw that you do not accept undisputable historical facts just because they don't fit into your world picture. For example, the facts in the wikipedia article about the 1947 UN partition plan. That is the marking of a propogandanist and not of an honest debater.


  5. We crossed posts.

    Excellent propaganda point for discussion. What Israel says though that it is "an outpost of Western values in the Middle East."

    You see, I took out the word enlightened. That is an altogether different argument whether western values are enlightened or not. Is this modification acceptable to you?

  6. Mais Oui.

    I claim that "Israel" is a prodigy of the dark ages, a Sparta of the 20th century.

    Secularism was the highlight of the Western thought at the time "Israel" was instated as a "Jewish homeland," and that "Israel" defied the Western conceived values of Human rights, democracy, and equal rights of its citizens.

    (perhaps we can take a break, I have to sleep now).

  7. Still no argument just general claims. Back your claims with facts and argumentation.

    France is a western country, yes? Show me that the human rights record, democracy record, equality record of Israel is worse than that of France.

    Israel has a much better record than France. It killed and tortured much less people, it colonized much fewer people, it has a proportional voting system and is more democratic than France, and it treats its Arab citizens better than the French do.

    Israel is indeed an example of western values and your argument is false.

    good night

  8. Ephraim,

    Of course, I will not let your comments pass, because while I was thinking of how to move the debate forth, you were waging an attack: there goes one for the road: Typical Backstabing emotionally Insecure Zionist!!

    (I wish you could have kept your shirt on for quite a bit longer, we could have done without this).

    It remains extremely gratifying that you find my "evasion" disturbing. You see not only do you have a short temper, you have a short memory. I think I told you that when I feel like irritating someone, I "zionize." Unfortunately, I wasn't this time, I was grabbing something to eat from the tent next door (see, we're arabs, hence we live in tents)..

    But let us make a few things clear, again:
    1- I am not scared. I am extremely busy to do extra research. I can START verifying December 2, when I finish my project (remember, I told you I have something going on that is keeping me up and running). Unless of course the so called staet of "israel" pays my bills.

    2- I am honest. But it takes one to know one, hence you are acquitted.

    3- Warn and rant, hot air, no argument, unsubstantiated claims. Oh How horrible!! You can of course apologize at your convenience for your emotional outbreak, that would be nice. If you don't, why should you be any different?

    4- Oh my dear enemy, I know you more than you know me, But I know you like me enough to keep coming back. You are scared for actually getting yourself caught admiring an Arab..

    did I catch you smiling?

    As I was saying before I was unnecessarily disturbed, I'm going to bed now.

  9. Fadi,
    Boy are you confused. Again just hot air and no arguments. But this time an excuse! Wait till December 2. If it is so obvious and simple, why do you need to do research? Why did you believe it is propoganda if you don't have evidence against it? You cannot even mount a minimal argument to support your position.

    If you are honest, give us the answer to the my question about the 47 partition. Is the wikipedia article about it accurate or not? If not, in which detail? Are you a propagandist or not? Not wanting to explain your position is dishonest and a propaganda trick. Prove me wrong. Answer the question.

    You are not irritating me, just showing everybody that you don't have any argument. Are you an empty shell or is there any substance there? Just one time, make an argument supported by facts.

    I will continue because I as well as other readers of this thread that I am in contact with want to know if you are a bullshit artist or if you can really make an argument. I am starting to lean strongly to the former. Prove me wrong.

    You picked the propoganda issue and point, now defend it instead of giving lame excuses.


  10. Hey Fadi,

    "IT" has kids? Shouldn't it be busy 'parenting' instead of blogging?

    ["IT"] "I sincerely hope that the Arabs raise their adult literacy rate above the current 70% to near 100%."

    Well judging from all your posts, I would say 'israel' has loads of work cut out for it.

    Passive-aggressive behavior doesn't endear one to humanity. The content is woefully lacking of class, let alone an 'educated brain'.


    Fadi, I thought I already explained about Wikipedia to "IT".

    Zionist-pro-israeli RUBBISH.

    I already checked it out. Two zions created it.

    Speaking of inventions, Suicide bombings and terrorism is an absolute invention of 'israel' and it's zionist children.

    Wow, some inventions for 'israel' to be proud of.

    Imagine how beautiful and wonderful the Middle East would have been, especially Lebanon, Iraq, and Palestine without the grotesque existence of 'israel'.

    Now it goes and murders more of Gaza's Children.

    But "IT" doesn't want to talk about our beautiful SEMETIC children that "IT" keeps killing.

    The true, beautiful, semetic, Arab children of Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq that your government is hard at work destroying.

    Those children dead and living have more Abrahamic BLOOD in their veins and are related most strongly to the tribe of Judah than you and your robotic 'nation' could ever pretend to be.

    Jealousy, Envy, and Greed. Is that what you teach your children?

    You teach them to be phoney human beings?

    But I digress...

    "IT" wants to discuss a useless, heavily-edited-by-ADL zionist invention.

    Fadi? You were friends with this?

    Dear man, do not lower yourself.

  11. I will not proceed with this conversation unless you get your acts together and debate respectfully.

    Otherwise, I see no need to proceed with this dialogue or any other.

  12. Fadi,

    Are you joking, talking about respect? Do you want me to make a list of all the insults you and your alter ego Rhianoon used? You never had a problem using "retarded mongrel" for example, or is that a compliment in Lebanon?

    I am stating a simple fact: Even when you choose the subject and the specific point, you cannot put forward an argument! How pathetic is that?

    You want respect, just prove me wrong. Provide an argument if you can.


  13. Well then don't proceed.

    Because you are in dialogue with a sociopath who doesn't care what argument you may present, no matter how painstakingly you put your words and sentences together - backed up with evidence.

    Like a retarded mongrel or sociopath (I'm banking on sociopath), "IT" will completely ignore what you state and ask the same question but in another pathetic way.

    Fadi, where on earth did you get the notion that there was going to be any RESPECT in a dialogue with this 'thing' or any of its ilk?

    I am NOT this thing's EQUAL.

    When it comes to spirit, truth, and the concept of justice - which is sorely and woefully LACKING in the make up of this 'person's' human form, I shine considerably compared to IT'S dull smudge of existence.

    When a 'person' beats people up with nitpicking on the content of wikipedia (or any other bone thrown their way) that was explained several times - MEANWHILE, there is an ongoing holocaust of Arab children raging which this scum supports whole-heartedly - then no longer is this person a person.

    Just an empty shell of a humanoid, an IT - ITS life based on deception, jealousy, envy, and greed.

    That is all.

  14. Go ahead, insult and dehumanize me and my children. After all, we are Jews and are used to it. When you have had enough of that, please provide an argument to the point and issue YOU raised.

    To remind you, we are discussing the following which YOU suggested several post ago:
    "Ok, there's a topic:
    "Israel" is an outpost of enlightened Western values in the Middle East."

    I gave you an initial reply and now await your argument, but it is ok if you want to insult me some more first. After all, it is your blog.


  15. Richard Wilson’s hypothesis:

    Israeli soldiers and/or Mossad agents
    are killing our soldiers in Iraq
    in order to enrage American troops
    so that the slaughter continues.


    At the very beginning of a video clip,
    you see a rifle with a video
    camera attached to it.
    This weapon is made
    by the Rafael company,
    an Israeli arms manufacturer,
    that also makes IEDs.

    When you watch this video
    all the way through,
    it explains how this rifle works.

    CNN stated that the camera used
    to film these shootings
    was not a mounted rifle camera.
    Please note: Anderson Cooper
    used to work for the CIA.

    But as you watch the video,
    you see that with each shot fired,
    the camera recoils.
    That would only happen
    if it were mounted on the rifle.

    Why is this significant?

    Because this kind of rifle-camera
    is extremely sophisticated
    and not available to your
    average Iraqi insurgent.
    it’s not exactly
    an easily obtainable
    Saturday night special……..

    Something this sophisticated
    points to….


  16. [More of the OLD propaganda for tears and sympathy] "Go ahead, insult and dehumanize me and my children. After all, we are Jews and are used to it."

    What happened to ATHEIST jews? Why don't you ever call yourselves zionists? You should be PROUD of your zionism. The blood looks good on you.

    By the way:

    All that insulting and dehumanizing of 'you and your children'?

    You brought that on yourself. You and your racist, built-on-hate-greed 'israel' and no other is to blame.

    It's your creation against yourselves. If you want to UNDO the dehumanizing of your people and country, YOU HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

    The ball is in YOUR court and no one else's.

  17. r,
    thanks for the constructive criticism, I will patiently await your alter ego Fadi's answer, that is, if he is able to provide one.

  18. Ephraim.

    Cool down please. We are here to debate in a civilized way. I fail to see why you choose the bootcamp retarded mongrel ways of responding to what is supposed to be a learned exchange of views - is that what civilized and advanced means in Zionland? I also fail to see why you liked to be called "Little Athiest Jew," but dislike Mongrel? I didn't call you any.

    I only "dehumanize" you as a warning signal every time you cross the line, and you are doing that more often. I always keep reminding you that insults are easy to throw and are unsubstantiated. So, when I called you a "Typical Backstabing emotionally Insecure Zionist!!" I immediately explained that I wished you could have kept your shirt on for quite a bit longer, we could have done without this. I am more and more inclined to believe that I was describing a case not throwing an insult.

    As for their children, I do not believe I have mentioned them, and they are not part of this discussion unless they partake in the exchange of views.

    You will not hear any answer, or if you do, you will not understand it anyway until you settle down, and ask the question clearly, and politey. I know you can if you try. Otherwise, you know very well I can DELETE whatever I want. But I think with your irrational reactions, yoiu are providing the readers of this commentry more and more evidence of what Arabs have to deal with every day..

    In other words, try to put back the snake skin.

  19. Fadi,
    Thank you for admitting that you are the one doing the insulting. I accept your apology though it is really not needed. All I am asking for is a good argument. Please provide it.

  20. Fadi,
    You may not have insulted directly my children, but you didn't erase the posts that did so either. As the owner of the blog, this makes you reponsible.

  21. Rhiannon,

    Calling Leechland a democracy makes me rethink the true meaning of the word. Did I ACTUALLY just hear someone compare how Leechland is better than France in terms of "less murdered, less tortured, less colonized?"

    Someone just brought up an argument that is befitting of a Fifth Grader, in a response manner befitting of a truck driver for the Nazi troops!! That same someone is asking for answers. Behold the high academic of "zionist" Bigfeet who's idea of a kiss is a bite, and whose idea of an argument is a fight!!!

    Do you think we are wasting our time? Ya3ni 3am bi-bal3et.. haram!

  22. Fadi,
    Finally something like an argument. Why the insults again? I accepted your apology. Are you going to erase the posts insulting my children?

    Let start with the murder. In Algier alone France killed between 350,000 and 1 million people. This is much much more than Israel ever did.

    What is your resonse?


  23. e,

    2al baza2ou bwij aleel el shi2mi 2al el dinyeh 3am bit-shati!!

    I think saying what I just said in Arabic will fall on the same deaf ear as if I said it in English or French or German, or Madagascan!

    Can I recommend a reading:

    Future of Freedom by Fareed Zakaria.

    While I do not agree with several arguments the Mr. Zakaria makes, I believe that understanding the terms:

    Freedom, Advancement, Liberty, Democracy, are very elborately explained. Such terms as you are taught in "Israel" are not necessarily the same in the rest of the world.

    We are clearly talking on different wavelengths. I cannot understand how you are shifting from rational to irrational, from a admirable dialogue maker, to an inept insulter!!

  24. Fadi,
    Anyone that reads the blog can see that you are doing all the insulting. It is all there for anyone to read. Are you going to erase the comment that insults my children or not? I think I deserve an answer.

    We are discussing whether Israel is a western state or not. Your first claim was that it has killed many people and therefore is not a western state. I replied by showing you that the extent of killing does not determine whether a state is western or not. France killed many more people than Israel yet it is a western state. What is wrong with my argument?

    If you don't disagree we can move on to the issues of democracy and human rights.


  25. I am still reading this dialogue, and must admit Fadi, that I think you are more the bully than the reasoned person. E has been more polite in his remarks than you, and he is a guest here. You have not only allowed R to make very personal immature attacks, but encourged them.

    I am disappointed.

    E, I don't think there is any point in continuing. There will be no sensible points made here, until Fadi decides to extend to you the same courtesy he extends to others.

    It would be good to hear from Fadi, what GOOD things Israel has brought to the region. It would also be good to hear how Israel can stop the oppresion in the Palestinian area's.

    I am not holding my breath though.

    I suppose your great grand-children will be arguing / fighing / dieing ..... I have seen it on BW television, I guess I be seeing it on Plasma until the day I die.

    What a shame!

  26. Emory, Ephraim, Everybody,

    Hold On!

    Just in case you noticed, I refuse to delete any comments over this blog. Most of the insults on this blog were against me by the way, yet, if one plays with the cats, one has to take the scratches. While we should try to keep the dialogue a bit elevated, I do not think that I should exercise censorship rights.

    While R falls on E like a ton of "Zionist lies," he lost is temper on me. I don’t see why he doesn’t answer HER back? Perhaps she is using a more effective methodology than I?

    I also took the time the time to reread several comments on this blog, and I do not find that R's comments were directed against the children, I guess they were directed against the Parent. She says: "IT" is blogging instead of parenting. Well – take it as a suggestion for time management. As for the concern for one's children – I find that the painful analogy R tries to draw is that Palestinian and Arab children are being killed, MUREDERED, SLAIN, every day. One refuses to hear of that, one refuses to deal with that, one accuses the children of being the root of terrorism, but I find it fascinating that one cannot tolerate to think that other parents around the Arab world have children to, and they love them too, and they care for their safety and future too. I hear no mention to the harm done to those children, yet someone is calling for an apology for a possible insinuation.

    A finale here, Emory you are right, and if someone takes a deep breath and reread what I have written from the start of this commentary about my concern that my children will kill his, or the otherway around, you should know that this is not an insult, it is a warning of an atrocious image. If one thinks that nuclear weapons or bullying will protect, one has to think of the other side of the argument and think: what if I am wrong? Should I build peace for their sake or should I let my arrogance kill them.

    I said it before, and I will repeat: We are digging the graves of our children. We are building the gas chambers for them, we are building the prison cells. I am still not a parent yet (as far as I know). If I were one, I would feel what other parents go through when the IDF kills their children in their beds in Qana, Nabatieh, and Tyre in Lebanon, or in ambulances, or in UN convoys. It is too painful for any person to see his children in pieces, or in a wheel chair. Why is that OK for Arabs?

    You feel insulted for whatever you perceived of R's commentary and now mine? Good. Now how about you do something about it?

    Your children and Mine are in direct danger. One of them, or all of them will die, bloodily. Do you want to do anything about it, or should I go multiply and have 15 children to keep up the supply for ambulances?

    Whom I am I talking to anyway? You want war, you will have it as long as you want it.

    Emory, may you live long to see the end of this. Keep a DVD recording for history.

  27. [sociopath suffering grand illusions-possibly hearing voices]
    "Are you going to erase the comment that insults my children or not? I think I deserve an answer."

    What insults? Hallucinating, I see. What insults is he talking about, fadi? (laughter) wikipedia, now the children.

    Yes let's talk about the children. Not yours.

    Ours. The ones who are dying and are dead. The ones who are the LIVING DEAD.

    Let's talk about the Lebanese children. Not yours. Yours aren't in hospitals with no eyes, arms, or legs. Yours aren't dying from cute little cluster bomblets that are killing 3 children per day in Lebanon. Not yours.

    Your children's skin isn't being burnt from the inside out from your HIGH-TECH phosphoric weapons, and other gasses included. They are not dying slowly in agony, lying on the ground, screaming for their mothers and fathers.

    How long now? 60 years of your rapes, murders, and massacres. THe children of Lebanon and Palestine have seen, suffered and died from it all - your despicable junk - the void of human conscience and spirit.

    Your precious 'israel' defecated its putrid cluster bombs all over the South of Lebanon.

    Your kids are SAFE. ALIVE. They aren't missing arms, legs, and eyes. They aren't being torn apart from your defecations strewn all over Lebanon.

    Your a wimp. A coward. Not a man.

    Whining from imaginary insults about your children? Get off this blog and be a parent. Go protect your children from IMAGINARY INSULTS. My God, they may lose an arm or a leg or an eye from these IMAGINARY INSULTS. My God, I hear them crying.

    THey must take after you.

    Sad. You are the one teaching your children hatred.

    YOU stop the insulting of your children. YOU.

  28. [unbelievable] "It would be good to hear from Fadi, what GOOD things Israel has brought to the region."

    Sure. Let's talk about the children.

    Not 'israel's children.

    Palestine's children.

    Let's talk about the "GOOD" 'israel' has done in the past several months for the Palestinian children.

    How about the grand bombing just a few days ago that murdered families in their sleep - courtesy of 'israel'.

    How many Palestinian children have died THIS year alone so far in this manner? What number of murdered Palestinian children are we at now, oh grand and noble 'israel'? Over 500 children?

    This number doesn't include Lebanon's dead children.

    So generous of 'israel' to take the children off the hands of the parents, no?

    Is that what you meant by contribution by 'israel'?

    Let's talk about the aid, supplies, and food cut off to the children. THey are starving and dehydrating. No abundant supplies of medicines for children who are ill and are falling ill due to the environment created by 'israel'.

    Is that the contribution by 'israel' you are talking about?

    Let's talk about the lack of sleep these children suffer. Nightly raids, invasions, and warplanes flying low, breaking sound barriers into the wee hours of the morning - from dusk til dawn.

    Are THESE the contributions of 'israel' you are talking about?

    Loss of parents.
    Loss of homes.
    Lack of Education.
    Destruction of agriculture and theft of olive trees and other foliage.


    I don't know why I didn't see these fantastic 'contributions' from 'israel' before!

    Thanx buddha boy. Mind passing me the weed so I can TRIP like you?

  29. Look, you can all restate the the historical past with your own particular bent on it.

    You can even continue to to disrespect people because they have a differing POV.

    You can scream atrocity, and point a finger.

    You Fadi, and you Ephriam live in this region. Agreeing to be enemies in 2006 just seems ridulous to me!

    The ending of A life is not worth the aurgument. It doesn't matter how many, or who they are. It is the singular life that is REAL.

    Bottom line is that Israel is there, and nothing short of phyically killing every Israeli man, women and child will change that.

    Is that outcome OK with you Fadi? I don't think so! You are more enlightened than that. You obviously have more decentcy in you.

    Ephriam, how much longer will Israel opress the Palestinian people. How many more check-points, accidental artillery discharges, air strikes, economic stragulation and deaths are you willing to accept in Israels name?

    Real change in the region will come from a change in the mentality of the region. It starts with the people. Not with the politicians. It starts with you guys! You live there, it is your area of OUR world.

    Discuss peace, debate how to get to peace. Shake hands not fists .... the region has been shaking fists for as long as I can remember.

    If you guys can't then who can, and if not now then when!

    Lebanon is a ruin, Israel lives in fear, and Palestine is a mess. So much for shaking fists! Try something else.

  30. Emory,

    Thanks for your patience.

    It is unfortunate that Fadi turned out to be a Baghdad Bob type dogmatist as well as a bully.

    Please feel free to ask me any question that you think I evaded or want more information on. Perhaps Fadi will agree to do the same and ask R not to attack you just for asking a question.


  31. Emory,

    We crossed posts.

    Fadi and I basically agree to the two state solution, almost. I really agree but Fadi sees it as a step to a one state solution. I do not agree to that because it means the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Fadi still dreams of destroying Israel and that is why the issue of Jews being a nation is such a sore one for him. Nations deserve countries, but he wants to deny one for the Jews.

    I am willing to live near a Palestinian state in the 67 borders. I will willingly give bank all the West Bank and Gaza for an historical reconcilation that includes the acceptance of a Jewish state in the mid east.

    This is where our disagreement is. Fadi will not accept a Jewish state as a constant part of the middle east and neither do many Palestinians.


  32. ["IT"] "Fadi still dreams of destroying Israel and that is why the issue of Jews being a nation is such a sore one for him. Nations deserve countries, but he wants to deny one for the Jews."

    Must be lovely to put words into people's mouths. You're so priveleged with the powers of the earth behind you.

    So while Fadi "dreams" of destroying 'israel', your precious 'israel' is PHYSICALLY, RIGHT NOW TODAY, AS IN THE PAST, MURDERING ARAB SOCIETY AND STEALING LAND.

    Sure. I get it. I always did. I know how ROBOTS like you 'think'.


    [buddha wannabe] "Look, you can all restate the the historical past with your own particular bent on it."

    HISTORICAL PAST? What, honey? Don't you read the latest news? You don't know about 'israel's' new sharon, AVIGDOR? This new (not so new, really)demon is bent on destroying more Arab lives. He wants to put Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine into the incinerator.

    What HISTORICAL PAST are you talking about? I'm talking about today. Why don't you get off your pillows and stop inhaling the incense, boy.

    Why are you here? Why don't you take a trip to 'israel' and have a meeting with AVIGDOR and try and talk him out of his murderous deeds?

    Otherwise, you really no nothing of what you're talking about.

  33. ["IT"] "Fadi will not accept a Jewish state as a constant part of the middle east and neither do many Palestinians."

    Well that is all a moot point. Just another propaganda dog on a stick to serve up to the simpletons such as your budda boy friend (who knows NOTHING), and surely he will gobble it down, if you don't shove it down his throat first.

    Lot of scenarios like that goin' on the USA, Canada, ya know, the land of the FREE.

    THe truth is, you don't WANT the Palestinians to accept a 'jewish' state.

    NOw I'm confused. You meant 'ATHEIST JEW' STATE, DIDN'T YOU?

    Why don't you just call it an ATHEIST STATE?

    I see. "IT" wants to keep the jew name close at hand. For "sympathy" and "love" purposes when the hate is getting too heavy and out of hand.


    Moving along.

    THe problem with Robots like yourself is that you keep pushing the ball into the Palestinian's court. You do this on purpose.

    YOur killing the Palestinian children daily and you expect acceptance from their families, but the real truth is, you don't care if they accept you.

    And you don't want them to.

    That's the game of 'israel'.

    IN the House of Horrors, it serves no purpose to cultivate peace with neighbors when the game is to murder as many people as possible without the world hating 'israel', and to STEAL ALL THE LAND.

    This was the game plan since the 30s.

    It never changed.

    And the world is waking up, "IT" boy.

  34. R,
    Do you accept the following plan:
    No right of return. A Palestinian state in the 67 borders including East Jerusalem. Historical reconcilation that includes the acceptance of a Jewish state in the mid east.

    Don't tell me that Israel won't accept. I am asking if YOU will accept.

  35. ["IT"] "I will willingly give bank all the West Bank and Gaza for an historical reconcilation that includes the acceptance of a Jewish state in the mid east."

    What about East Jerusalem?

    Forget it. This is all time-wasting. But it's good to see how the robotic mind really works. It's good to see how the darkened soul really knows no boundaries when it comes to wickedness.

    Your "intentions" are null and void.

    Your words are empty.

    Besides, are you rubbing shoulders with Olmert, Wolfowitz, Kristol, and Perle that YOU can make this happen?

    Oh please.

    You're either a wannbe Wolfowitz having fun on this blog....


    You're just a patsy for their favours.

    Well you're no different from the American soldiers or the IOF 'soldier' robots.

    Patsies. That is all you are.

  36. ["IT"] "Don't tell me that Israel won't accept. I am asking if YOU will accept."



    When will you STOP putting into power the bloodhound ghouls in your office that makes for more BLOODSHED OF CHILDREN IN PALESTINE, IRAQ, AND LEBANON?

    You're asking me if I would prefer a garnish on my plate imported from Siberia and I'M HUNGRY FOR THAT STEAK THAT IS ON THE STOVE NOW.

    You're playing games. You love it. I know what you are.

    Your intentions are blank, lifeless, and the question you ask is just a bullying beat-up tool to extract more dignity from Arab people, hence, the answer means NOTHING to you anyway.


    It is up to 'israel' to stop the hate, racism, deceptions, and lies which RESULT IN BLOODSHED FOR ARABS as well as for 'israel's' own.

    FIX YOUR MONSTER GOVERNMENT and THEN ask the question.

  37. [UNBELIEVABLE] "Bottom line is that Israel is there, and nothing short of phyically killing every Israeli man, women and child will change that."

    If this happens it will be the FAULT OF 'ISRAEL'.

    My such dramatics and hysteria!

    They didn't get killed. They are still alive, these israeli people.

    Meanwhile, hundreds of Arab children are murdered every week - IRAQ, LEBANON, PALESTINE to the tune and bidding of 'israel'/USA.

    So what are you SCREAMING about? What's with the high melodramatics: every israeli man, woman, and child getting killed - wooooo!

    You got that backwards! No need to foreshadow any events. It's happening now.


    Could it be, Fadi, that this emory is another ZIONIST?

    Oh yeah. Only the zionist, fake jew, atheist jews, talk like that.

    So emory isn't a buddha boy, he's a zionist. He, she, whatever.

    Only a zionist talks like that.

    Lovely. Another zionist jellybot to add to the roster of Fadi's blog.

  38. e,

    Let me go over this one more time - and one Last time for the sake of the innocent readers who catch up late, and get it wrong.

    Needless to say, this is my blog, so when I write, I'm expressing my view, A VIEW.

    The problem is not "Jewish" state. The problem applies to an "Islamic" state in Iraq, or a "Christian" state in Lebanon or whatever. That is dangerous. The problem is NOT with accepting the Jews, and you repeatedly missed that point, it's accepting a mono-chrome society. A monochrome society is not viable in the region "jewish" or not. Why can't you get that?

    Perhaps a "Jewish State" is viable somewhere else. I am not saying this as a mockery, but of all the unstable regions in the world, the "historic" choice of Palestine to instill a "Jewish State" is fundamentally wrong for two reasons:

    1- It did not take account of the actual inhabitants; and of the damages invoked.
    2- Most importantly, it assumed things will be all right forever. It's like placing a piece of ice on a hot surface. It is not viable. Now don't go analyzing the ice/hot surface, it's just an analogy to show contrast. Placing that entity in this region is a strategic planning error. Putting that plan into work proved to be a human disaster to us.

    For the outside looker you think the region is uniform: Arab/Islamic. Well, this region is divided on so many lines, religious/ethnic/cultural/political/linguistic/hierarchial
    YES.. I am for example a Christian or Muslim Lebanese, Ethnically Arab/ orArmenian/or Asian, Culturally Western, Politically citizen of Lebanon, member of the ..say.. Socialist Party, linguistically Arab/English/French, and come from a middle class. I can have common grounds with Christians, with Arabs, with compatriots, with Anglophones/Francophones, and with those of my social standing. It's a concentric relationship that starts from having common grounds with those around you, and with those beyond, and those beyond.

    Christians and Muslims in Lebanon for example have been proven to ethnically desecend from same ancestry, share the same language, cuisine, history, geography, etc.. and yet find so many differences that led them to fight each other because of a clash of one of the lines I mentioned above. Now can you imagine instilling a foreign body in a whirlpool or throwing a bomb in a shaky volcano..?

    Hence comes the integration call. "Israel" can be a successful project somewhere else in the world. It's just in the wrong place. The only peace can come through integration among the lines - to melt.. I am not saying it is trouble free, heaven knows it is a very tricky for the "natives," to deal with their own differences, but I am saying it wont work otherwise - for any of us, us, and "you."

    e, you think I want to destroy Israel, well, that might be the case, but I know it's not possible by the press of a button. You said I was pragmatic, and I can say this, and you are chose to believe it or not, in my blog "Davidstone" I was trying to envision a peaceful solution. We could have war until one of us wipes the other, and I'm rather hopeful, but I simply tried to extend a thought to an alternative. Perhps thinking outside the box could help. Perhaps thinking that my initial plan might not work, I'm simply thinking of a Plan B. You should too. And that plan B cannot B a plan A in disguise!

    I see now that we cannot. We are already in a deep-mud. We can stay there until one drowns the other.

    Emory, whatever I can say about Israel as "admire your enemy" cannot be said without a disclaimer, and you surely know what that would be like. I can still answer you: I like the music of the "Hatikfa," very much as a musical pice, I also admire the hard work of the zionist colonialists to quickly establish a state of their own (the effort, not the initiative or the outcome..), and particularly the effort to spread the use of Hebrew among the settlers, a linguistic revival of an otherwise extinct language is not short of a miracle. Hebrew was not extnict, but for a long time it was as good as Latin, a "religious" language. Now Hebrew is a literary and sceintific language. Many other things that are too detailed, and not relevant in this response.

    Emory, you have a soft spot for "Israel" and a "hard spot" against Arabs. You know what, you're entitled to what you believe. That is your view. I travel a lot, and used to get bothered when I hear someone defending "Leechland." Now I've come to a middle ground: We are already at war, so it really cannot get any worse, have no shortage of accusations and facts against Leechland - but let us spare our efforts - what's the point!!

    I did my best to look a bit differently at things, MY BEST. Well, if that wasn't good enough for somone from the opposite side, it's not that I expected acclamation!

  39. Fadi,

    If your best is to admit that you would like to destroy Israel but that it is not possible by a press of the button then I mistook you for a pragmatic person. You lied in your original posting in which of course you didn't mention this point.

    I want peace but since you don't want to make peace with Israel, just destroy it, I guess it is not possible.


  40. "I want peace but since you don't want to make peace with Israel, just destroy it, I guess it is not possible."


    You want peace? Get off the blog and join the Jews for Justice in 'israel'.

    You want peace? Be a refusnik.

    You want peace? Stop playing passive-aggressive games with putting words and intentions in peoples mouths and minds.

    And stop PRETENDING you want peace.

    This is easy for anyone to say with a brain the size of a pebble, three times the size of their heart and twice the light of their soul.

    Much too easy to say, therefore no meaning behind this word "peace", you zionists throw around all too casually.

    For peace it takes justice and action.

    Let's see you walk the walk.

    Let's see you dismantle your racist government and military.

  41. R,
    For someone sending other people to war from thousands of miles away, you are very brave. Why don't you go to Gaza and really help? Then maybe, someone will listen to you.

  42. e,

    Well, not only haven't understood what I wrote, you refuse to see beyond your nose.

    For better and for worse, your paranoid attitude overcomes you. Perhaps the word honesty is a stranger to you.

    You live and support a state that is committing genocide. You clearly could not bring yourself to criticize the murder and torture of civilians by your state, you clearly fail to see the future. Perhaps that it good for you.

    I lied in a post you say, your whole life, state, and line of thought is a lie. The only truth is the blood on your hands, the stigma that will haunt your mob and your descendants until justice is served.

    Again, a quote for the bood of Exodus.. HOW BEFITTING!! EXODUS.

    "Wherever hurt is done, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, bruise for bruise, wound for wound." You can run but you cannot hide. You can bite but you cannot kill us all, you can spread poison, but we are getting accustomed to your trash.

    Your "people" invented the concept of eye for eye, we gladly accept the challange. But you know what,We wont kill you (you wish), we will do worse, we will make you one of us.

    May you live long to speak Arabic!!


  43. Fadi,

    It is a deal. You try making us one of you, and we will keep as far away from you as possible (so we don't harm you accidentaly). Given the history and track record of the Arabs, you should be trying to be like us but never mind, your plan is ok too.

    Let's continue this discussion once you finish the civil war in Lebanon. You probably will be less busy when you become an Islamic state. You will only need to pray five times a day and Iran will take care of the rest.

    Tell me how the transition goes so we can start learning about the Lebanese plan in Israel right away. In any case, we will choose between the Iraqi plan and the Lebanese plan. Either option is good, but we want to make sure we choose the best one. Which one do you recommend?


  44. Fadi,

    thank you for the re-cap and the positive points offered on Israel.

    I do not care for monochromed societies either, and like you don't think they can last. Here in the "new world" people tried to put away their differences from the "old world" and for the most part it has worked. It worked in great part, because the societies built here (North America) where not intended to be monochromed. Differences, atrocities, a terrible civil war, slavery et are part of this continents history. I don't want you to think that I believe it to be Eden. But ....... considering the absolute mix of people in the States it should be considered a Human work in progress, and one I feel privaliged to be a part off.

    So I do get your point, and agree.

    Your thought on assimilation of the Israelis into the region is thought provoking. If such a plan where effected then once again the Jewish people (I understand the difference between Zionism and the Jewish people) would not have a home, and would be again at the mercy of other Nations.

    Any study of history proves that the Jewish people have been treated very badly, and history has a tendency of repeating itself. The realization of a Jewish State does not in itself assure the survival of the Jewish people, it does however give then some control on their destiny.

    You have the same belief in the right existence of Israel, but you don't think it should have been established where it is.

    i'll finish my comment later,,, Part II as it where.

  45. Richard Wilson’s hypothesis:

    Mossad is a master at false flag operations, e.g.,

     Oklahoma City,
     the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen,
     the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires,
     the July 7, 2005 London bombings,
     the 9-11 attacks in New York,
     the assassination of the Prime Minister in Beirut,
     the stoking of Muslim riots in France last year,
     the bombing of the Hassan al-Askari Mosque in Samarra, Iraq, etc.

    Israelis freely move among US
    and UK troops in Iraq, and have access
    to top-level US intelligence.

    Until July 2003, the head of all
    US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan
    was General Tommy Franks,
    a Zionist Jew.

    He is now on the board of directors for Bank of America.

  46. Emory,

    Fadi's view of Israel is quite distorted. First of all, Israel is 20% Arab, 30% Jews from Arab countries, 30% or so European Jews and 20% mixed. Jews from Morroco, Tunis, Algier, Egypt, Iraq, Poland, Russia, Germany, England, France, Bulgaria, Turkey, Ethiopia, US, Argentina, etc. intemingling and cultivating their diverse cultures while celebrating their common Jewish heritage.

    Israelis are a mix of secular and religious also. New immigrants and people who have been in the country for years.

    Israel is very far from a monochromed society as any visit to it will attest.

    It is not New York city but it is more diverse by any measure than any European country and most regions of the US (it is 1/3 the size of New Jersey).

    The "monochrome" argument is just another excuse to deny the Jews the right of self-determination.

    The natural place for Jews is Israel. All our history and common yearning to return to it for 2000 years attests to that.


  47. Emory,

    Please check out this link:

    It describes the diversity of Israel and how it may hold lessons even for the US.


  48. Richard Wilson’s hypothesis:

    On November 7, 2006
    another Zionist Jew
    became a principle liaison
    between Mossad and US forces in Iraq:

    Major General Richard F. Natonski
    of the Marine Corps.

    His title is Deputy Commandant for Plans, Policies and Operations.

    Because of this access,
    the “insurgents” (i.e., Mossad agents)
    know exactly where US vehicles will be
    and who will be inside them.
    This allows them to target for
    maximum false flag effect.

    For example, on July 23, 2005,
    a detachment of 19 female US Marines
    was sent to Fallujah
    to check Iraqi women for bombs.

    An IED blew up their truck.
    Two of the young American
    women were killed, five were
    critically wounded,
    and four were captured.

    The bodies of the four
    captured women turned up later
    in a garbage dump
    with their throats cut.

    Americans were outraged.
    Islamic clerics insisted that
    only Israelis could be so cold-blooded.

  49. Emory,
    Great reply - let me state my view:
    You are right:
    I agree to the right of existence of the State of Israel (notice the unquote), but I do not believe that the current "Israel" is well placed, or durable, or for that matter bearable. Come what may, I do not agree in principal with any oppressive regime. Regardless of any historic rights, religious calls etc.. the location was the worst anyone could have chosen to put a plan into harms way!

    While the existing state of "Israel" is not the only cause of all the wrong things in the Arab world, it certainly - at best - IS not helping. At the current level, it's aggravating an already bad situation. The end result is havoc for both sides. Arabs are paying with blood for someone else's plan and right for a home? Is that fair?

    E, thanks for your future foretelling, maybe you can you is closer to home to look into your own future. For the record, I will fight an Islamic State in Lebanon, or a Maronite state, as much as I fight any ridiculous claim of a Jewish state. That mentality is extinct: those who still call for it are brain dead close minded separatists who refuse t integrate in the world under false claims of security. Maybe e can look into the curly haired horn wearing ultra-religious in his own neighbourhood stoning people for moving around in their cars on a Sabeth? Is that what you call a civilized discussion? Is Cheesebuger allowed in a "jewish state"?

    I believe that the security of any individual or group is under a secular democratic progressive government. Now as for having "Israel" as a home for the Jews around the world, it is my best guess that "Israel" is the most dangerous place on earth for a "Jew" to be, today, tomorow, and after tomorow.

    Persecution of the Jews over centuries in Europe is abominable and disgusting – or for that Persecution of any group. I do not think a holocaust against the Jews or the Slavs or the Gipsies is possible ever again, and we should all work to prevent any such thing. That work is to "eliminate" the so called foundations of any such attempts. I disagree that "Israel" is any of the above. "Israel" is the gravest danger for the Jews ever. "Israel" is a cause to trigger hatred and antagonism. Now that hatred is not against the Jews, it is against the outrageous blood machine the calls for a "national home" have caused. Please make sure to draw that line to prevent any misunderstanding of the aim.

    The rest of the statements by e, are not founded and reactionary, stemming from ignorance – not more. Typically weak arguments of "go fix your own house." Well guess what, you're right, plenty of work has to be done on our part, we don’t claim to be perfect or fault free. Do you dare say the same?

  50. Fadi,

    Fadi says:
    “I agree to the right of existence of the State of Israel (notice the unquote), but I do not believe that the current "Israel" is well placed, or durable, or for that matter bearable. Come what may, I do not agree in principal with any oppressive regime. Regardless of any historic rights, religious calls etc.. the location was the worst anyone could have chosen to put a plan into harms way!”

    Since Israel cannot be moved, this is a moot point. Where is your so called pragmatism? You cannot undo history, we all have to live and ACCEPT its results. I in principal do not agree to any of the oppressive Arab regimes, but I leave it to the Arabs to sort out their own business.

    Fadi says:
    “While the existing state of "Israel" is not the only cause of all the wrong things in the Arab world, it certainly - at best - IS not helping. At the current level, it's aggravating an already bad situation. The end result is havoc for both sides. Arabs are paying with blood for someone else's plan and right for a home? Is that fair? “

    The only reason the Arab’s are paying in blood is because they don’t accept history. You don’t have to forgive but you have to move on. It is the first time you are acknowledging that Arabs are responsible for the state they are in. That is a good start. Israel is not the reason there is genocide in Darfur or wide spread illiteracy in the Arab world. It is not the reason that there is no world class university or so little scientific productivity. It is not the reason the Sunni’s are fighting the Shia in Iraq, nor is it the reason the Lebanese factions cannot get along. It certainly is not the reason why there is no democracy in the Arab world. Israel is an EXCUSE to look outward instead of inward and solve your own problems.

    Fadi says:
    “E, thanks for your future foretelling, maybe you can you is closer to home to look into your own future. For the record, I will fight an Islamic State in Lebanon, or a Maronite state, as much as I fight any ridiculous claim of a Jewish state. That mentality is extinct: those who still call for it are brain dead close minded separatists who refuse t integrate in the world under false claims of security. Maybe e can look into the curly haired horn wearing ultra-religious in his own neighbourhood stoning people for moving around in their cars on a Sabeth? Is that what you call a civilized discussion? Is Cheesebuger allowed in a "jewish state"? “

    I have eaten many excellent cheeseburgers in Israel. There are kosher restaurants and non-kosher. There are stores that sell pork, others that don’t. During Passover I go to Jaffa to buy fresh pita from Arab bakers. You really don’t understand what Israel is all about. You are again making the mistake of assuming that Israel is a monochrome society. Some ultra orthodox sometimes act in a deplorable manner in which case the police deal with them. On the other hand, Israel sends the transsexual Dana International to represent it at the Eurovision contest. And again you lapse, after accepting Israel (not in the mid east) you say the idea of a Jewish state is ridiculous. Your emotions are clouding your reason again.

    Fadi, don’t you see how foolish you look as a Lebanese when you criticize Jews of being separatists? Lebanon is the ultimate country of separatists; everything is measured by sect and I mean everything. Who has heard of a country where the president must be Christian, the prime minister must be Sunni and the Speaker must be Shia? What does religion have to do with political position? Only in Lebanon one can still find this in the constitution.

    You want to convince me that your “integration” ideology is sincere and not a ploy to destroy Israel? Practice what you preach and make it work in Lebanon. Then I will be more inclined to accept it. Currently it is just a recipe for failed states and civil war. Why should we try something that clearly now is a failure? First make it a success yourself and then suggest this to us.

    Fadi says:
    “I believe that the security of any individual or group is under a secular democratic progressive government. Now as for having "Israel" as a home for the Jews around the world, it is my best guess that "Israel" is the most dangerous place on earth for a "Jew" to be, today, tomorow, and after tomorow.”

    Of course Israel is not dangerous for the Jews, but what is more interesting is why you think that? You think it is dangerous because you cannot ACCEPT history, however unjust you feel it is, and move on. If you would, we would have peace tomorrow. Please explain why Arabs cannot accept a Jewish state in the Middle East in the 67 border? Why is that so difficult? Don’t forgive us; just agree to leave us alone. We won’t bother you also. Israel is a cause of antagonism only because you cannot accept history. If you did, there would be no danger to anybody since peace would be possible. We would return to the pre-1967 situation basically and have no war. Why is that dangerous?

    You believe in a “secular democratic progressive government”? This is almost what we have in Israel. To my taste, church and state are not separated enough but we are slowly getting there. Show me ONE Arab state that is even close to being a liberal democracy and that I would be comfortable in. For example, most Jews left Lebanon and the few that stayed masquerade as Christians because they are afraid.

    Fadi says:
    “ Well guess what, you're right, plenty of work has to be done on our part, we don’t claim to be perfect or fault free. Do you dare say the same?”

    Israel is perfect? Where did I say that? Israel blunders along like most liberal democracies doing the best it can in a complex world.

    Fadi, you do not understand my “fix your own home argument”. Let me explain it to you again. Integration happens in stages and takes many years. You have to make people want to integrate. You cannot force them. The Mexicans would love to become one country with the US, but the US will not agree. The Turks would love to join the EU, but the European countries are reluctant. Would you call the Europeans separatists by the way? Look how difficult it was for West Germany to integrate with East Germany. Integration between states requires similar values and similar standards of living. It cannot be forced. It needs to start by accepting one another as two different entities. The Arabs need to accept the Jewish state as a fact in the Middle East. Then they will have to make it attractive for Israel to integrate with them. It cannot be done by coercion or threats. You cannot say to us, “integrate or else…” That is bullying and that is exactly what you are doing. If you don’t fix your home, we will never have an incentive to integrate with you. Nobody wants to move into a dysfunctional home. Make your home nice, and we will consider the idea more favorably. It is really quite simple.

    Can you say the following: “I agree to the two state solution without any caveats. Reluctantly, even though I think it is unjust, I accept a Jewish state as a fact in the Middle East. I hope though that in the future the Arabs and Israel will integrate into a larger entity and I will work towards that goal without using any violence. Even when presented with a magic button, I will not press it to destroy Israel. I will let the Israelis chose their own timetable to integrate with the Arabs but understand that it may take hundreds of years and also may never happen.”

    If you do, we have a basis for a solution, but I am afraid that the integration you have in mind is a forced one. You cannot accept what you perceive as an historical injustice and it is eating you from inside. Maybe I’m wrong. Why don’t you use the template above and change it to what you can agree. At least we will understand where we disagree.


  51. [JUST ONE OF MANY LIES FROM THE LAST TWENTY-MILE POST] "Israel is not the reason there is genocide in Darfur or wide spread illiteracy in the Arab world."

    Two things:

    Do NOT bore us to death with such 20 mile posts.

    Darfur? You DARE to mention Darfur.


  52. On April 30th - of this year - supporters of a United Nations/U.S. military invasion of Sudan rallied in Washington DC. Zionist and pro-imperialist activists nationwide and in the Boston/Cambridge area are busy demonizing Sudan, repeating outrageous allegations of genocide” in Darfur against the Sudanese government and mischaracterizing the civil war in Darfur as being based on race or religion. The anti-Sudan rhetoric in the US media is intensifying.


    The war in Darfur is not a religious war of Muslim against non-Muslim.

    Everyone in Darfur is Muslim.

    It is not a racial war of White Arabs against Black Africans.

    Everyone in Darfur is a Black African.

    It’s not even a war of Arabs against non-Arabs Arabic is the lingua franca of Darfur and the language of education.

    Everyone in Darfur speaks Arabic.






    Conveniently done to deflect attention away from Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine.

  53. As American popular support for the war in Iraq HAS LESSENED, there has been a RESURGENCE of anti-Sudan and anti-Iran propaganda.

    The mainstream media in the US has blamed the Sudanese government for the civil war in Chad.


    Charles Jacobs’ Zionist groups of Boston are the world headquarters of Zionist activism, i.e., anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racist activism.

    Charles Jacobs is the founder of the pro-Israel propaganda group CAMERA and the David Project, groups that ATTACK journalists and academics who write IN FAVOR OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS.


    In the early 90s……


    A whole host of interconnected anti- Sudan groups now exists including the Sudan Campaign, another JACOBS-LED GROUP, WHICH ADVOCATES FOR DIVESTMENT FROM SUDAN.

  54. Sudan is in the Arab League. There are 39% ethnic Arabs and the official language is Arabic. It has just emerged from a 21 year civil war between the mostly Muslim Arab north and the Christian, pagan south. In the war 1.5 million people died. It now has a problem with Darfur.
    Do you think Sudan is an example of a successful Arab country or an example for successful integration?
    Do you think the problems in Sudan are Israel's fault?

  55. One Zionist response to the movement to divest from apartheid Israel is to deflect attention to Sudan and a push to divest from Sudan instead.

    To keep the spotlight off of 'israel'. To prevent groups of organizations in the USA from divesting from 'israel'.

    Harvard’s divestment from Sudan took the form of divesting from a Chinese oil company that buys oil from Sudan. Part of the reason for U.S. and Israeli attacks on Sudan is to try to stop China from obtaining oil.







    Fadi, remember when 'it' mentioned the trillion dollar oil wealth of Saudi Arabia as opposed to poor - strapped-for-cash, sad little defenseless 'israel'?

    Just keep that in mind for future reference :)




    The USA/'israel' entity want the power of this trade all to themselves.

    That is the 'beauty' of 'israel' - you can tie 'israel' to anything that is dark, hidden, with agendas.

    Where there's oil, money, land, and a host of other natural resources to be had....the zionists are standing in the front of the line.

    They didn't work their way. They just pushed and shoved their way and cut into line.

  56. My apology for the time lag on Part II.

    So ... the right to exist is not the point of contention, it is the location of the existance.

    Although the Zionist movement pre-dates the establishment of Israel, it exists because of WWII. There was no mass movement in the aftermath of WWI, even given the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and the British Palestinian Mandate.

    The impetus for Israel lies in the systematic, industrialized genocide of Jewish people, Jewish culture, and Judaism. It lies in the Holocaust. The goal of Nazi Germany was the total anihilation of Jews. To wipe an entire people and culture from the face of our world.

    It became apherant to all surviving Jews (not just Zionists), that they could never be put in a position again, to just go quietly into the night. To disapear into history.

    Afterall, where would the Jews of Europe go. Warsaw, Berlin, Munich? What are they going home to? After 6 years of the systematic murder of families, total destruction, and then a Soviet empire in the east there was no home.

    South America was untouched by the War, but required sea transportation to a land with no Jewish tradition whatsoever, a land monolithic in deep rooted Catholocism. Moveover South America was now the destination of German Nazi's, with some help from the Vatican.

    North America offered the great melting pot of the United States. Many thousands of displaced Jews and others made their way here after the War. America was on her acendency into superpower status, filling the vacuum left by a bankrupt, and battered Britain. What America offered was a place to exist, but a place without Jewish self determanisation.

    Great Britain was hurrying to divest herself of Empire. She could nolonger maintain finacially or militarily an Empire from a pre War and fast distant age. Winston Churchill himself was seen as an Empiricist and voted from office. This was not the direction the people of GB wanted. (France, although humiliated during the War tried to hold onto their colonial possesions. Algeria and Vietnam et)
    Great Britain (Mandate) did not want the mass movement of Jews into Palestine, but how could they forcably prohibit the Jewish people from establishing Israel. What moral authority would have defended such action.

    It is not lost on me, the tactics used by Zionist to establish Israel. It was afterall bombings (read terror tactics) of the British authority (Colonial Hotel et) that led Britain to turn the issue over to the newly formed UN.

    Given that there was no natural place to establish a Jewish Nation, they turned to Judea, to Palestine, and the life root of Judaism. The only place on our planet that could historically offer a natural homeland.

    Current day Israel is undeniably the natural home of Judaism.

    For me, given my belief that the Jewish people have an absolute right to exist, I also beleive then, that they have the absolute and natural right to exist where they are in the Middle East.

    There are many successes for the Jewish people, and Judaism with the creation of Israel. A single point, an only nation, a refuge for a people.

    These succeses however are tempered by the immoral treatment of Palestinians ........

    Part III ..... My views on Palestine, and the Arab states.

  57. Norman Finkelstein accuses those who exploit the Holocaust of telling lies and of naked greed.

    He argues that the ruthless industrialisation of the Holocaust has encouraged the rebirth of anti-semitism in Europe and the United States.

    The son of survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and concentration camps, he says, "I do care about the memory of my family's persecution. The current campaign of the Holocaust industry to extort money from Europe in the name of "needy Holocaust victims" has shrunk the moral stature of their martyrdom to that of a Monte Carlo casino."


    BTW what zionist #2 posted about the impetus lies for 'israel' the holocaust.......

    A nice excuse to murder Arab children. Is that what zionist #2 is talking about?

    Nice try.

    Why bring it up when you so 'rightiously' say this bunch of baloney:

    "Look, you can all restate the the historical past with your own particular bent on it. You can even continue to to disrespect people because they have a differing POV.You can scream atrocity, and point a finger."


    So...why are YOU bringing up a HISTORICAL PAST?

    BTW, do you even know what the word REDUNDANT means?

    I don't think you have a clue about anything.

  58. Wow! Look at this:

    "Part III ..... My views on Palestine, and the Arab states."

    Goody goody! Can't wait!

  59. Finkelstein makes clear that the Holocaust Industry is not about making sure that Nazi depravity is not forgotten — it is about extorting huge sums of money from Switzerland, Germany and any other country which can be tarred with the Nazi brush.

    Modern-day Germany has already atoned for the sins of the Nazi era, both morally and financially.

    Many times since the war (and even today) Germany's leaders have expressed their profound regret at the actions of the Nazis, and have accepted collective responsibility for what happened.

    As Finkelstein says, "In the early 1950s, Germany entered into negotiations with Jewish institutions and signed indemnification agreements.

    It has paid out to date some $60 billion."

    Although we may rightly feel contempt for the Germans of the 1920s and 1930s who supported Hitler, most of them are now dead.

    Germans born after the war (apart from a few young Nazi sympathizers) think very differently. Germany no longer has any reason to abase itself before the denunciation of its Nazi past.

    Especially not when that denunciation comes from those who appear to be MOTIVATED PRIMARILY BY A DESIRE FOR MONEY.

  60. Absolutely delirious blog. Your country is on the verge of a civil war and breaking apart and you are still raving about the end of Israel. Funny Arabs ;)

  61. FADI ....

    What is happening in Lebanon? I have been keeping up with developments, and things really don't look good!

    Are things as bad as they ssem to be? Tell me Civil War is not on the horizon, please not another War!