Sunday, October 08, 2006

David-Stone: Defensive Rolling Stone

Had it not been for the burst of the military bubble of Israel, Egypt would not have got its land back. Lebanon now has the same options. Israel paralysed half of Lebanon and destroyed 10 billion dollars worth of Infrastructure, a bunch of Lebanese guys parlayed northern Israel & its economy, and their economic losses are comparable, and the cost of war is not cheap for them either - 2 billion dollars of weapons.

Israel has forever boasted it can destroy the whole country. It still can, but this country will not stand still. I have strong reserve on "who" fights the defensive war, but I have no doubt that we should be always ready to give our neighbour to the south a strong kick in the mid-section if it gets macho. I propose to call the defensive plan - the David-Stone, a small stone between the eyes of the military giant once that beast gets aggressive.

I do not believe in peace with Israel, I do believe in a truce - until such a time that Israel truly moves towards peace. I believe the same applies to all Arabs and Israel. I repeat, until proven otherwise, Israel should not be trusted. On the other hand, running an endless war is futile to us at least. War from our part is only a means to set the record straight. After peace, we should always be careful. Israel cannot be trusted.

A clarification, I do not believe in Israel's right to exist as a principle, but I am also pragmatic. Now that it's there, we have to find a way to live with it with a pinch of salt, or a squeeze of lemon. The interim solution: two states. Long term solution, one state for the two people (secular, non-ethnic). Final solution - one state, and one people. Those would be called the Palestinian people (or call them any name), a multiethnic people, and multi-denominational one as well. Jews, Christians, Muslims etc. Some of the new-Palestinian people would have been originally Arab, and the others would have come a long time ago from Poland, Germany, Yemen, and Morocco etc. Timeframe? Hopefully 60 years. Crusades have done that, they came as Fredrick and Wolfgang, now they are called Mohammed and Elias. Let's put it into testing: Motche Kassav is called Moussa Kassab. Actually, the earlier pronunciation of the name sound like a sneeze compared to the rhythmic Arabic.

Another interesting fact, part of the Crusades and their settlements moved back to Europe, those who stayed integrated with their surrounding. I know that Arab airlines are acquiring A380s en-mass, in short, they can move a million people a month if they need to. Possible destinations: Madagascar for Climate, Europe for Culture.

68 comments:

  1. You're funny guy, look how much time you people invest in thinking how to eliminate Israel. The sooner you accept the fact that we are here to stay and that we arent going anywhere (no, not to Tunis, Madagascar or Poland) the better your life becomes, because instead of spending your time, money and energy trying to destroy someone else's country you'd spend it on improving your own, but apparently this isnt going to happen any time soon, so while you remain backwards and pathetic Israel will continue to prosper.

    Ramadan kareem!

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  2. Ramban,

    Let me worry how i spend my time, energy, or money. I have plenty - and as long I am spending the above writing, YOU should be grateful.

    As for backward and pathetic, maybe I am, but who are you to say? An outcast doubling as a Racist suprimest? interesting combination.

    You said it right, "Israel" is not going anywhere anytime SOON, but it WILL eventually.

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  3. Not at all Fadi! If I appear racist I am deeply sorry ;) just out of concern for you, I hate to see how the Muslim world cant develop and keeps blaming everything from rain to bad music on the big bad Zionist entity, stepping on the spot without advancing. Israel is not going anywhere not now, not tommorrow and not in a thousand years, just accept it, I'm sure your grandparents were also certian that Israel will dissappear under the Arab tank tracks in 48 and your parents thought the same in 67 and 73 and since then nothing has moved in your way of thinking, you still believe that the next Salah a-din will come tommorrow and kill all the Jews. Wake up me friend, it's just not going to happen, and the sooner you accept it the better you will be off.

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  4. e,

    Sorry for the delay, I was traveling with little time to blog. (and not on Camelback Ramban).

    To answer the points you raised:

    1) Lebanon cannot integrate 500K Palestinians not because it cannot, but because they have their own country to go back to. The Jews can, or eventually will, because they live on those people's land. Least they can do is to share-peacefully, as we both should agree war or tension are not fruitful. Lebanon did integrate Armenians, and hundreds of thousands of those who gained citizenship in the 1990s. It doesn’t want to, neither do the Palestinians I must add. The Palestinians can and will continue to live in Lebanon if they wish, but they will live so a nationals of another state – State of Palestine, and not as refugees because of another state, now called Israel.

    2) Incentive to Israeli IS to move away from the two state solutions gradually. Time, common interests, and demographics would eventually play a role. The whole region will become "unified" least of all in a socio-economic context. Borders are no longer barriers. God forgive me for saying this now, (I make it no secret that I oppose the existence of Israel, but not that it's there...) - it is in the best interest of Israel to integrate. It is not an island. Whatever makes “Israel” a political protégé of the United States, the superpower of the time, is not eternal. Super-powers change, so do US politics, and interests.

    3) Israel should give Lebanon land and rights in return for no-war (hence truce). Despite the immeasurable variance in the use of weapons between both sides, we both agree that Israel was not really basking in bliss during the last war. Let’s say that both parties would give in a little in return for peace of mind.

    I have to be clear: my mind IS made up on the Palestinian Issue. First, it is a matter of principle. I also support the Armenian Rights of compensation and return to their lands in Turkey, the Turkish Cypriots right to live in southern Cyprus, and the Greek Cypriots right of return and compensation to their lands etc.. – it is a principle.

    Second, but of COURSE I believe in fighting Israel, I just do not believe in using force to do that. Nor bloodshed or violence, whether drowning Israelis in the sea, nuking them with Plutonium, or even tickling them into oblivion. Israel is until now a malignant and unjustified growth in this area. I think, It has an option to turn into a benign one, and then to integrate and add to the prosperity and diversity of this region, which brings us to the third option, I believe in cultural and racial interaction and intermixing. Being a Jew is not a disease that requires quarantine inside a state called “Israel.”

    If all three options fail, I am sorry to say that I will not be the one who is calling the shots in either direction... Look around and you will see that the world is not getting any safer, and that the Palestinians inside and around Israel are not getting any fewer, neither did Israel make any friends among its immediate environs of the Arab people (save two or three rulers). Arabs are neither pathetic nor backwards to use Ramban’s argument, and if they are, they will not be so forever! Better, have pathetic backward friends than pathetic or backward nuisance, or worse - Strong and Advanced enemies.

    Times Change. They did for the Israelis; bet you they will change for their enemies.

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  5. Ramban,
    Apology accepted. Not being a racist is not excuse of Ignorance. Arabs detest Israel, and that's not secret, hence they view it as source of all evil. Now you have to make up your mind: Arabs or Muslims? You make the same ignorant assumption as you try to criticize: Arabs and Muslims are not moving anywhere, Jews/Israelis/what have you - are the source of all evil.

    Read my comments below. Neither you or I can say what will happen in a thousand years.

    My grandparents believed that right shall prevail at the end. My parents did the same, and my grand grand children will do also. They told me to keep trying no matter what.

    Saladin did not kill Jews. If there were to be another Saladin, he wouldn't either. The problem is the lack of Saladins, not the excess supply of them.

    I'm sure that the Jews who left Jerusalem in 70-80 A.D. because of the Romans (..not Arabs, or Saldain), believed they will come back to Jerusalem. The power of belief got them back after 1850 years. Now I am not saying they should not be back, I'm saying they two things:
    1- They were right on ethical grounds until they made themselves the Romans and the Palestinians the Jews in Diaspora. They made victims of those who had nothing to do with their original tragedy (&dont give me any two state in 1947 talk). I am saying ETHICALLY.

    2- Dreams and believes DO come true, 1850 years later..

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  6. e
    I answered you before I read your comments on racism etc.. Our comments crossed.

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  7. e

    You are welcome in my home, and in my city, and in my country as a guest or as a perminent residence, or even as a citizen one day. But not an invader or usurper. I always use the Armenian Example. How many armenians were victims of hate crime across the Arab world since 1915? NONE. Jews have always been part of the Arab and Islamic culures and an integral part of the social and cultural formation. They had a better chance of integration. I am saying they still DO.

    I do not hold the Israelis responsible for what happened in 1948, I hold them fully responsible for letting it GO on. It's not a fait-accompli. Suffering is still ongoing, so are the camps, so is the loss of property, dignity, and life. I hold them responsible for the "new jews in Diaspora" - AKA palestinians.

    I am sorry about your family. My point exactly, pain and fear drives people out of lands, and out of their minds. What goes around comes around, and a victim turned oppressor is more evil. Jews were victims turned opressors. Mind you, I am not saying that the Arabs will not turn out to be worst opressors in the future. I am afraid of EXACTLY that. Harsh as the picture might be, getting to Madagascar would not be for tourism purposes for anyone.

    How many Dreyfuses are concentration camps survivors do you think are "in the making"?

    Israel has to open up, peacefully integrate, and peacefully disintegrate. For avoidance of doubt, I repeat, not because I care about that entity, but because I care for human life, and I believe that there can be another way of resolving conflict.

    Not more, not less.

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  8. This exchange of views is phenominal. I have never read anything, that has been so enlightening as your exchange.

    You both live this everyday, and we "outsiders" struggle with a deeper understanding of both of your dreams and aspirations for the Land of Palestine, and The State of Israel.

    You have both illuminated with clarity and logic, a situation that has long perplexed the outside world. You have both done so in a manner that brings me a deep respect for you both, and both of your views. For this I thank you.

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  9. That's right. And if I was a Jew, I would be a self-hating Jew, wouldn't I? And, indeed, I would need some help, as you say, right? And if I was a refusnik, I would be a self-hating israeli, or Jew, or both - whatever - (since you keep muddying up the identity of who people really are) - right?

    As long as things are going your way, your 'country's' way, the zionist scheme of things way, everything is all right with the world - right?

    Tough luck, PAL. You lose. Your 'squeaky clean', over-bleached zionist world happens to have quite a few bloody spots on it.

    Scream "out damn spot!" all you want. We see the blood.

    Instead, try this: Take your parents and children with you on your many INVASIONS to the territories.
    Let them see how 'brave' you are as you beat and murder children half your size, three to four 'soldiers' against one child or one man.
    Let your parents and children see how 'brave' you are as you destroy their homes and belongings.
    Let your parents and children watch you humiliate and roughly handle Palestinian parents and grandparents at checkpoints.

    Hope your children and parents pack a big lunch while they watch the drama. Palestinians wait half a day to a whole day just to get through.

    Now the violence may upset them and make them wonder what this is doing to the minds of the 'soldiers'. Indeed, I hear that severe depression and suicidal tendencies run high amongst the IOF.

    If these illegal invasions and humiliations do not upset your parents and children, and you are not bothered by this violence yourself, then you are what we call SOCIOPATHS.

    If this is the case for the greater part of 'israel' then there can be no help for a people with no conscience.

    In that case, the blood of Abraham is completely non-existent in your veins and you are not God's Chosen.

    So who are you, really? What are you? Hoaxsters? Charlatans? Quacks? Fraudmeisters?

    Sad.

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  10. Not only racist, fanatic, fundamentalist and nationalist, but also ignorant.

    I suggest you look up who was ramban and then tell me that I'm an 'eastren european convert'. Sadly, I cant blame you, you are not a thinking person who is fanatical out of choice, but the defective product of a brainwashing machine you call "Education", I dont expect anyone who's been taught from day 1 that Jews are bad, evil, Eastren European converts who bake little Muslim kids, and learns about Israel only in the context of "The Zionist enemy", to have an open mind and be able to handle a dissucsion with the big bad YAHUDI. Watch out, I'll have the elders of Zion after you and your family.

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  11. You say I think that the Jews' blood is more important, where did I say that? Stop putting words in my mouth I never said, you see? Its that damn propoganda I'm talking about speaking out of your throat, you are just dogmaticly saying things about me because that's what you've been brainwashed with.

    Secondly, here's another part of the brainwash you've went through - Judaism is not only a religion, it's a nationality aswell, you can deny it all day long but that is the reality, it is also the reality that the land of Israel is the land of the people of Israel. I didnt invent this, look in your Quran, it says the same on both of these things.

    You say that "Defending the land of the Jews means you can destroy everyone else's", naturally, the security of one's country comes before the security of his enemy's, hello, welcome to earth! The security of India is more important to the Indians than the security of Pakistan, and the security of China, and the security of Israel is more important to the Israelis than the security of Lebanon, that's all, and if Lebanon chooses to fight with Israel, it should expect that Israel fights back, and since the balance of the forces is not equal it should expect more death and destruction if it chooses to do so (I would say that this should lead you to seek peace rather than war, but since you are all fanatic war mongers it would be premature to talk about peace).

    It doesnt matter what Ovadia Yosef says, because he does not run our country. You see, unlike you, we have realised that mixing religion and politics is a big no-no and leads to bad things, fundamental and fundamentalism are two different things, and if you cant define between them you are in a bad condition.

    Ah, now we reach the favorite argument of every Arab and Muslim "We didnt kill you so dont do things on our expense", for the 10000000th time, the holocaust has nothing to do with Zionism or Israel, it is not because, it is in spite, we didnt look for a state because of the holocaust, brought a globe to the weekly meeting of the elders of Zion, spun it and put a finger blind and this is how we got here, although this is what they teach you, sadly it's not true.

    We 'chose' this place not by random, but because it is our land, our land is the land of Israel, that's all, and that's why we didnt establish a country in Russia or south America. National home does not have anything to do with nationalism, you are once again mixing things because you dont understand what they mean.

    I dont care about Lebanon, because I'm not Lebanese, you on the other hand, are obssessive about Israel, if I'd of spent 1/10 the time you spend thinking about Israel thinking about Lebanon I think I'll have a heart attack! I open my window and I like what I see, I walk down the street and I like what I hear, this is my country and I like it, that's all.

    I find it funny to hear lectures about seperatism and violence from someone who's country went through 15 years of civil war and 100,000 dead, if we were to take your example of harmony and coexistence I'll have to take a long route, first I'll need to find my suitable secterian militia, then I'll need to buy a gun and start shooting my fellow countrymen (those damn blue eyed ashkenasis, always hated them), maybe throw their bodies into whitewash pits or tie their skulls to the back of my car, and if I die I can always be declared a martyer and enjoy life in heaven with many virgins and that.

    Last, my dear Fadi, I think I'll have to ruin another one of your fantasies, are you sitting...?








    There are no elders of Zion!

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  12. Ramban,

    You'd like to hear you're getting on my nerves... naaahh..not really.
    Of course there are no elders of Zion, and I know that because Zion has to found first, and if there were any elders sitting there, they would be a pile of bones,
    skulls near their feet (as per my earlier comment). Start looking in Madagascar.

    Go find the word dogma in a Larouse or a Webster. Then please use them. And while at it, look for the term derivation. I will not stoop to respond to your exchange of slanders, you
    are better than I whatever you choose to call me.. sweet pie.


    Fighting Israel is not the issue, there are several ways of fighting, and I made that
    clear. First, try justifying what the so called state of israel is doing here. You want a land on our expense: guess what, it won't happen, it won't end. You'll loose. I'm trying to save you here by asking you to change wisely.

    Of course it matters what Ovadia Youssef says. If you wish to eliminate discource, then you
    have to do it from both sides. Hence, you cannot accuse us of being dogmatic and throwing
    accusations.

    Actually, you make it worse by saying that holocaust was not the reason for the protrusion
    of the so called state of israel. Hence, you loose a moral justification for seeking refuge.
    In other words you are telling me you came into a land for political or "dogmatic"reason of
    a lost paradise, killed the natives, screwed up everybody's life FOR NO REAL URGENT CAUSE except that you felt unliked or unloved? Bloody Hell.. Bloody Hell Indeed. Guess what dear. There is
    a quotation that says: And the word is spoken against the oppressors. If you are saying you
    have caused destruction and war in Palestine and the region just because Hertzel felt out of place,
    or because Dreyfus (spelling?) was called a traitor.. Oh boy.. you just made it vvvvvery interesting.
    Guess what.. thank you, bye bye. (as in better luck in Madagascar or the underworld).

    Our country is the worst in the world, we are all criminals. However, no one is questioning us, you are the one who has to answer to what you're doing among us, and what you're doing to us.

    Raping a hooker is a crime. kicking a corpse is a crime. Torturing war criminals is a crime.
    Ethics and morality are not outweighed. Call us what you want, you are still a criminal.

    You have your crimes: answer the questions I asked: do you dare?
    Do you dare? Do you dare?

    Judaism is a nationality: yeah sure..hence, the Pop culture generation is a nationality as well.

    That's funny. I told you my mother desecends from a Jewish Tribe, if Judaism is a genetic issue,
    then she's Jewish (genetically), and I am One too. If it is a religion only, a faith, a belief,
    then it's not transmittable. This is what I keep repeating. Same applies to all other religious
    classifications, and with our world, to ethnic classifications. We are all Human beings. Let's forget whom we think we are, or what we call ourselves - let's look at what we can become.

    If you hear me say: I have every right to exterminate the people of Iceland, I am emotionally uncomfortable in disaspora,
    some goat shepherd who heard a voice in the forest and have brought three plates of camel dung with chicken scribbles that read: move to iceland, kill, destroy and build the temple of Raab, your god.
    and call your tribe: The people of Persail..

    1- Goat Shepherd: admit to mental clinic, after washing his hands from dung.
    2- Plates: use as plant fertilizer, makes good flowers.
    3- People of Persail: lolll....
    4- Raab: temple indeed. Buy the land from its owners and build a sewage factory and worship
    whatever you want for all I care. But dont usurp it.

    Do you really buy that?

    My point: call yourself whatever you want, do whatever you want, worship or unworship whomever you
    like, but don't kill, don't hurt, don't usurp, and most importantly: DONT DENY IT.

    While at it, Let's play a game of accusation. I accuse you of a 3 sin, and you accuse me
    back of 3. Let's be good catholics and confess our sins: in YES or NO forms.

    People of Israel (the state): I accuse you of Murder.
    People of Israel (that state): I accuse you of Denial of Murder.
    People of Israel (the state): I accuse you of knowinly hurting the peoples of Palestine, Lebanon, and others.


    Confess, then you accuse us back of 3 sins. In YES or NO only.

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  13. e-

    Don't we all wish for a way forward?

    I couldn't help smiling that I immediately understood the words written in Hebrew, especially "Ahi".. brother... an Arabic word. Good start.

    I appreciate your trying to control Ramban's temper. My nickname is Gadfly, and that is what Socrates called himself - he is a Gad Fly of the Athenians.. a fly which stings a cow into maddness.. but nonetheless stirrs movement. I mercifully am rather immune to attacks as I have little exaltation to any sacrsant principle if this principle does not serve the original purpose - including any of my own. I will explain, Though Shall not Kill, says "God," a phrase that goes "I killed in the name of God" means all the words in the senstence lose their intended holiness. I intentioanlly like to stab into depth of subjects to either dust them off, or to terminate them. Bring them on, let's kill all the misconceptions.

    Having said that, I of course still disagree of linking between words : jew/hebrew/ on genetic/conviction grouds. But we can agree that a group has the right to decide their form of existence. Cool? Hence I created the people, People of Persail, with a common denominator, the worship of Raab, and a common possible grouping place: Noweria. Let's build this from the first. Noweria can be in New York, or Madagascar, or the the Wak-Wak Islands.

    Having said that, of course there is a moral justifiation exits for self determination - self determination is a morally justified principle - in other words, you cannot break a moral principle for the sake of another. Self Determination loses value - the minute it violates for example: the right of life or existence of others. I perhaps exaggarated the term "move into a land a build a sewage factory and worship whoever you care," perhaps a less industrial phrase could have read, I do not contest the cause or justification of the existence of any grouping individual campus, forest, farm, island , or country, including the hypothetical state of persail.

    In other words, I am saying that I do not doubt the justificaiton anybody has for the existence of the so called state of israel. God forgive me for uttering the phrase. I do contest however: location, timing, and consquences until the last breath of my last descendant, i.e. a time frame of 2006 - 2856 (1850 years..).

    For all the right causes, fallacies and attrocities are uttered and comitted. I do not think the past is beyond us. I will explain: If we take things by their future values, Israel in 2006 has failed the morality test as far as dealing with its "natives", and "neighbours", and not to mention its own people. Israel in 1894 was a dream, in 2006, it's a nightmare. Failed tests are usually aborted, or fixed. I will use the pre-1948 definition of "jew" as a symbol of a wandering tribesman in search for a home or shelter, not as a religious connotation. Today's Palestinian's are yesterday's "jews".

    Israel is now a "fact" but not "right". This is different. Hanging "around" does not make Israel "likeable" or "durable."

    If we want to forget for a while the moral violations, and be pragmatic, we will say: Israelis and Palestinians are there now, what shall we do about them.

    I propose:

    1- Israel should admitt it has committed violations against human life, human rights, and property, which resulted in a devastating humanitarian crisis.
    2- Israel should admitt it tried to hide its blunders.

    We all know that Israel is not going anywhere in the time being. Israel should think of how to put an end to this:
    3- Israel should offer compensation to the Palestinians: Moral, and Financial, and Physical.
    4- Palestinians should be given the choice of returning to the primary Palestinian State in West Bank &Gaza, or acquiring the citizenship of that country - whether they return or not is a purely logistical situation.
    5- Palestinians should be offered Financial comnpensation for lands within the current so called state of Israel, and I would like to dare and say, right of residence and citizenship for those who choose to acquire the citizenship of that entity. Now I can assure you that the number will not be big for: not many Palestinians would willingly adopt such a "branding" -

    6- The future: Palestinian State and "Israel" - by then, we can drop the quotations, Israel..
    7- Let Demographics do the work.
    8- Future Future: Integration. I cannot tell you how the region will look like in two hundred years, but I can tell you, with a bit of Luck, there won't be any two states. The so called "Jews"(?- objection for term again) get over their need for a hideout, a country of their own, or etc.. Palestinians will grow to think of those people who once came from all over the world with arms as "modified & habitable version of a neighbour,".. intermarriage, cultural exchange, linguistic exchange, .... Who are we to debate how the future will look like, our duty is to keep the doors open for tomorrow to come by.

    And believe it or not, I'm saying this because I do not want to picutre when the day comes where my grandchild kills your grand grandson, or the other way around. I do not want to even imagine the possibility that my grandchildren one day will bear the same burden and blood stain on their hand, even if they one day will claim they proclaim the "right" and the "power" to enforce their rights!

    The Jews made "Jews" of the Palestinians by throwing them into diaspora. God Forbid the Palestinians or Arabs make "Jews" of the "Jews" one day... How can we be better than our enemies if we do to them what they did to us?

    When I think of the future, I do not seek revenge, I seek Gratification. I do not want to imagine that my grandson or my granddaughter could POSSIBLY by seen like the zionist settler marching into a peaceful village with machine guns or tanks or hovering with an F-16. Not even the 1/10000000 prospect of that. I do not want to envision that the symbol of my country, a Cedar, to been seen as a symbol of death and of hatred, like the swastika or the star of david...not even by the last departing Israeli on his/her way to Madagascar... no matter how appealing the dream is..

    Love your enemies? Well I'm willing to do that - I hate "you" so much that I do not be an image of "you" one day under any pretext.

    I'd rather die. I would rather walk into a gas chamber myself, or put a bullet in my head myself, but not receive ONE glance of fear or one tear a dream like yours has caused to others.. do you know how your heart falls when you hear the F-16 screetch overhead to bomb.. Out of hatred, not of love, I say, May you never have to hear this ever.

    It's like the screetch of a Nazi truck in front of a Jew's home in Berlin. It sounds like a beating heart about to explode. It feels like cold steel on a naked back. One wishes it was painful. It's a fear that doesn't stop, but doesn't kill.. The whole world stands still, time freezes, but fear does not.

    If there is any such thing as an eternal damnation that befalls an agressor, it is the child of this moment. That moment is nobody's prize. You can have it all.

    For this supposed moment of hallucination (?), or forevision, I will try to stop hating you. Life has no moral justification - and I am speaking of MY own life, if other lives do not. For lack of ways to express how I feel, You have my word, I will not make a "jew" of you ever again... not ever...

    O poor poor poor nameless wanderers, you think your journey is over.. It has just begun.. Only this time you have to cross uncharted worlds with a heavier burden.. the weight of a screetch in front of a house in Berlin..

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  14. [ramban] “if Lebanon chooses to fight with ‘israel’”

    You see this is where your WHOLE ‘argument’ falls apart. It’s the other way around, pal! It is ‘israel’ that plans its massacring of Lebanese civilians, as it has done so for the last 3 or 4 decades. Lebanon has no choice but to defend herself. And yet many times, Lebanon hardly had any defense because of such twisted, sick, creation of murder done by ‘israel’. Remember Shatila and Sabra?

    You circled the Palestinian refugee camps with your tanks. You made deals with the Lebanese Christian Militia, as they were to do your dirty work, but it was you who planned it all. The massacre of over 3,500 people was of your (‘israel’s) orchestration

    Some defense Lebanon had. You had Her own army butcher all those defenceless men women and children. When children and their mothers tried to escape, your ‘israeli soldiers’ threw them right back to the camps so that they would meet their deaths.

    The ‘israeli army’ wouldn’t even let the Red Cross enter (shades of Jenin 2002) because you were too busy piling the bodies into mass graves (homes you destroyed) so that you could pile the brick, mortar, and other parts of destroyed homes over the bodies to hide them.

    Yeah. Shades of Jenin. Everything ‘israel’ does, it does it the same, as if learned from rote.

    Perhaps there is this book and there is something to it, this protocol zion elder thing.

    I’ll tell you why. I’ve heard a lot of you Zionists shrieking:

    “IT DOESN’T EXIST! IT DOESN’T EXIST!”

    “IT IS A SHAM! THERE IS NO SUCH THING!”

    “OH, WHAT A LAUGH, BRINGING THAT UP, ARE YOU?’

    “ANTI-SEMTISM! ANTI-SEMITISM!”


    Seeing that all you Zionist peak freans are always mentioning this thing and not the other way around…….there must be something about it that rings true, after all, it’s got you spittin invectives, doesn’t?


    ZIONIST RULE #1

    The more they deny, the more they lie, therefore the opposite must be true.

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  15. [the jewish atheist (lol)]"I can promise you one thing though, that I will never use violence against anyone unless he uses violence against me."

    Promises promises.


    [the jewish atheist (lol)] "Most of my family was killed by the Germans in wwII and all my family's posessions were taken by the Poles. The people that did these things are long dead and I am not going to fight their decendants because they are just not responsible."

    Are you trying to say you are gonna be a "big man" and take the high road after those nasty vipers pushed your family into the sea?

    Wow!

    Try this on for size. You don't give a fig about Poland. You wanted Palestine out of some false premise that the land is yours (sic).

    You took Palestine from the Palestinians which was theirs for many centuries and you massacred thousands to get what didn't belong to you.

    You did this easily because you had your Zionist organizations (the jewish atheists) back you up with tons of money and weaponry from sources in Europe and USA.

    Their would be no 'israel' without the lies you created and blood you spilled, illegally, atheistically, and 'jewishly' as you say. (lol).

    ReplyDelete
  16. More revealing ramblings from a atheist jew aka Zionist:

    “So what if the number of Jews in the world are dwindling?”

    It bothers you very badly. Sure, you will not admit this. And it is clear why:

    “the number of jews in israel is growing steadily”

    Tell me: Is that real jews? Or is that atheist jews? Or are they simply atheists? Which are which?

    Do you know WHY these people are moving to ‘israel’? They are sponsored by your ‘christian’ Zionists in the USA.

    They have fundraisers and CHURCH (as in Jesus and God, as in Jesus Lord Saviour – understand?) - donations. They raise multiple millions every year so that these Ethiopian and Russian jews can go to ‘israel’.

    Normally the Ethiopians and Russians wouldn’t bother, but ‘israel’ makes it lucrative – cheap housing, cheap healthcare, cheap or free education, and so on ……….

    All at the expense of the children in the USA and Lebanese and Palestinian children……..but I digress….

    You need these many assorted immigrants BADLY, as there are many Israelis LEAVING ‘israel’.

    Why?

    They don’t like the instability of the State and they don’t like the policies of their government.

    Maybe there are more people in ‘israel’ than you think or want to believe that are becoming disenchanted with the warmongering policies of a LEECH STATE – and a land that never belonged to them in the FIRST PLACE.

    ReplyDelete
  17. More disintegrating ramblings a jewish atheist (LOL):

    “…Judaism is not only a religion, it's a nationality aswell, you can deny it all day long but that is the reality, it is also the reality that the land of Israel is the land of the people of Israel. I didnt invent this, look in your Quran, it says the same on both of these things.”

    Where? Tell me anywhere in any Holy Book this is true, oh grand and noble atheist one. Where in the Koran? Where in Gideons? Where in the OT? The NT? Where in the Torah? There’s a lot of Holy Books out there – pick one.

    Will this investigation sully and taint your atheist predisposition? Will turning the pages of the Holy Books that are filled with the name of Jesus cause you to shrivel?

    Why do you even dare to speak of any Holy Book and what is says when you are an atheist? Giving me more peanut butter and ketchup sandwiches....and in your world elephants fly.

    As an atheist, why would you even dare to bring up God giving Israel to the Israelites (back in that time, NOT today)....

    Why do you sell to the world the ridiculous notion that Jesus was a Jew? Because that makes you more palatable to the Christian and Muslims, RIGHT?

    But you hate Jesus. You shrug Him off like a flake on your shoulder. But it is okay to bring up Jesus the Jew, for that serves your purposes perfectly.

    So you speak of GOD and JESUS like you know something we don’t, but you are an ATHEIST.

    TRUMP CARDS:
    1. God gave 'atheist jews' Israel. 'atheist jews' = the true Abrahamic Israelites. (I'm really trying to contain my laughter here).

    2. Jesus is a Jew.

    What else have you got going in your funny house of cards?

    Tell me: just for clarity, are you an atheist jew? Or a jewish atheist? Is there a difference between the orders of these two? Perhaps there’s more than meets the eye? In your deep well of wisdom, I am dying to find out ( as you say you will unleash the zion elders to get me), I am dying to find out if there are hidden meanings between atheist jew and jewish atheist.

    ===========================================

    Christian Zionists assume that the United States will prosper only if it supports all the policies of the Israeli government. Christian Zionists base this on God’s words to Abraham, “I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse” (Gn. 12:3).
    However, when Israel strayed from righteousness, God who loved Israel became angry and withheld himself from Israel.
    In Isaiah God says, “…Ah, sinful nation, people laden with iniquity, offspring who do evil…who have forsaken the Lord…When you stretch out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you, even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.” (Is. 1:4-15).
    To restore themselves to his grace, God says the Israelites should “…seek justice, rescue the oppressed…” (Is. 1:17) At a different time, speaking through Malachi, God says, “Then I will draw near to you for judgment, I will be swift to bear witness against…those who oppress the…widow and the orphan, against those who thrust aside the alien...” (Mal. 3:5).

    ================================

    ZIONIST RULE # 4

    The mad invention of TRUMP CARDS to make the world go topsy turvy.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Offensive?

    Naaah. Not at all. Have you any idea what you have done?

    You have caused a huge uproarious ripple of laughter as I copy-paste your words defining yourself as an atheist jew on other blogs.

    The reaction is amazing to see. I just can't wait to see what you will say next.

    ReplyDelete
  19. You DO NOT want Arabs to become technologically advanced and well educated and you DO NOT want them to become liberal, moderate or democratic....for then 'israel' would not look so good, isn't that so?

    Even though many Arab people are moderate and want to live in a democracy, but your Zionist occupied media in N.A. won’t let on about democratic Lebanon.

    It is the technologically advanced, moderate and well educated Arabs and Persians that are your BIGGEST THREAT – RIGHT? C’mon, you just said it! You admitted it. And I thank you.

    Isn’t that the reason why your Mossad and Mossad-driven CIA is killing hundreds of educators, scholars, doctors, engineers, scientists, and University students in Iraq?

    Isn’t that the reason they are giving money to insurgents and Arab traitors to do their dirty work as well?

    You love it that they are killing each other, don’t you? This is what you wanted all along. Chaos and murder to weaken their country and to further ‘israel’ USA neocon agendas.

    You love Ahmadinejad, don’t you?

    He gives you reason to shriek and you love it:

    “See, N.A. people? Those big bad Arabs wanna push poor little ‘israel’ into the sea!”

    “see, N.A. people? See how evil and violent those big bad Arabs are?”

    Ahmadinejad, just like Hussein, falls into your sick little collection of trump cards – RIGHT?

    Sad thing is Ahmadinejad is not the scapegoat fool – puppet that your beloved Hussein was.

    While Ahmadinejad plays right into ‘israel’s and USA neocon’s hands – Well he cannot help it, he has no choice, does he? – Still he won’t kiss your butt and make your Anti-Arab policies feel better like Hussein did – RIGHT?

    There is something in what he says isn’t there – and the jewish atheists cannot STAND that – RIGHT?


    IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU WORRY ABOUT ARABS GAINING IN EDUCATION AND TECHNOLOGY:

    This is why you make it difficult for Palestinian children to have education – you bomb their schools, you shoot them, injure them, cripple them, imprison them, murder them when they are young....

    you invade their towns and cities and destroy their books, printers, computers, and other resources for education.

    Who was it that said, “the greatest threat to ‘israel’ is the mothers, pregnant mothers, and children, (not the men) as they are the future of the Arabs.” -?

    jewish atheist ARIEL SHARON.

    He considered the future and resources of the Arabs and abomination to ‘israel’.


    Seeing that your elected evil entities get away with murder, I find it hilarious how you pimp Ahmadinejad, Hussein, Arafat, and others to the media as if to put them all in one boat- but you embrace these guys, they serve your purposes anyway.

    If you can bomb and murder relentlessly, without conscience, so as to wipe our children, our future off the map because of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Ahmadinejad……

    Then by International Law we can triple our revenge against ‘israel’ because of Sharon, Begin, Shamir, Meir, Barak, Netanyahu and the rest.....

    Oh.

    We can’t, can we?

    We are not technologically advanced as ‘israel’ is.

    Who controls our borders?

    ‘israel’

    Who gets five billion plus a year from N.A. and others?

    ‘israel’

    Who has the biggest trade in weaponry, stock in WMD, and has building nuclear weapons since 1958?

    ‘israel’

    Who has savage blood ties with the N.A. Media?

    ‘israel’

    Who doesn’t want peace?

    C’mon now…be HONEST!

    ‘israel’

    ReplyDelete
  20. E,

    I said that while the drivers for the establishment of a “Jewish” state are moral thing themselves, the instruments were amoral, if not evil. Comparative morality – as in, “I am better than X or Y” is not really a remedy. Healing starts with honesty. In the last century, Turkey and “Israel” in this region have committed genocide invariably against Armenians, Kurds, and Arabs in case of “Israel”. Now a justification such as, but the Germans did the same to the Slavs, and the Japanese did that to the Koreans, or the Iraqis did that to the Kurds, and the Hutus did that to the Tutsis does not justify, and does not qualify as an excuse or an explanation or a remittance.

    “Israel” has to accept its bloody past, and only then can it move ahead to be part of this region. Otherwise, it will just move... eventually. You can reject, I can stress it for a long time.

    Factors change. How many in 1939 could think that France and Germany will open up? The bitter enemies since 1870. Believe it or not, intermarriage is not the only indicator. Let me tell you how I see things: the Etat-Nation is a transitional form of state which is not always successful. It can succeed, but it can also fail. A European state, then the European Union is an example of good and the better. Now you will tell me that Europe has more in common in terms of religion, geography, and customs than do the Jews and the Palestinians/Arabs. I can answer that yet with all those commonalities, they managed to fight for centuries. It took the will to change. Never eliminate the possibilities.

    I was in reading a research about safety and security the other day. Of course it didn’t have anything to do with “Israel”. Then I recalled the possible army of “Israeli” robotics of the 22nd century! To beat that, you do not need an equal army of robotics, but one smart person, and one small “bug”. It’s just a matter of time. This bug metaphorically was a horn – the tumbling walls of Jericho, and a sling shot of a shepherd boy against the giant, and a left-handed dagger!

    E. I am a compassionate person, and I fear that I am one of a few. I believe that unless we bring up tomorrow together, only one of us will have one; I refused to have my children be like “you” by repeating your same mistakes; Victims turned oppressors are the worst kind of oppressors. The only way to stop the nightmare is to turn on the light.

    “Godly”? Now that is mean considering you’re an atheist. -:) I agree with Rhiannon that I cannot conceive the term of Atheist-Jews. The greatest abdicator of all was none but Karl Marx who said : Je suis un citoyen du monde. Giving up religion and race means taking up a higher faith, a faith in Man.

    The walls will fall – for the good or for the better. I am afraid we are erecting the gas chambers and the guilty conscience cells of our children with our own hands... the term self defense is the first brick in that wall.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Hi e, keefak -

    The different sects in Lebanon are not fighting anymore; they are actually divided among themselves along odd and quite ununderstandable political lines, and yes they can clash, but it won't be sectarian. I posted earlier a study I did on a house of many mansions by Dr. Kamal Salibi. Getting along does not mean be a replica or an army of robots with same concepts. We are not meant to be the same, but we are meant to be together. No one says our struggle is over, but why should WE keep YOU waiting? No one is questioning our presence.

    To restore them to his grace, God says the Israelites should “…seek justice, rescue the oppressed…” (Is. 1:17) At a different time, speaking through Malachi, God says, “Then I will draw near to you for judgment, I will be swift to bear witness against…those who oppress the…widow and the orphan, against those who thrust aside the alien...” (Mal. 3:5).

    I agree with God, quoted by Rhianon.

    I am also inclined to believe in ZIONIST RULE #1 & #2 (sic) – Denial, and fragmenting dialogue so as to NOT have peace, and to NOT get along with surrounding. Now the intentions can be malicious, or simply – gravely distorted. There is always a tendency to move the "battles" into someone else's turf. I do not feel it serves any purpose on the discussion of integrating "Israel" in its surrounding. If it doesn't integrate, it won't stand. I don’t care if it doesn't of course; I care about not being the same savages our oppressors once were. I believe I clarified that pacifist view earlier.

    I know what the word Godly was, I was trying to make a joke.

    I am smart; let me tell you about my view of atheism. We were all brought up (or maybe not, but generally) to think of God – an authority – a given rule. Now I "Personally"believe there is a creator who is all loving and all encompassing, but I do not believe in people's God – in that sense I am an atheist. We have made God to look like us, to kill, hate, and destroy like us. Now I do not believe in that God. (Read my article God Telecom).

    I believe that atheism is the break of traditional chains on one's mind, on one's social, political, sexual, etc… chains. One breaks free of a dogmatic God. Now Judaism or Zionism – the way I sense you interpret are dogmas. A dogma is a belief or set of beliefs that a political, philosophical, or moral/imoral group holds to be true – a dogmatic person's god may not live in Heaven, but he has a God of his own. In my interpretation, I believe that Judaism, like Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism, is a religious belief or a way of life. In your interpretation, it is a choice made by a group of people. Let's say that I disagree with the word dogmatic—in that sense, you are a theist, you believe in a God, but this god happens not to live in heaven. It's nothing against you, it's just something against the term. Now if you said you were a Jewish Zionist - this debate would have been: How can you believe in a religion and yet commit what is against its teachings. Before you cite the example: same applies to catholic church mass genocides, to so called Islamic "fundamentalism", etc.. hence I used the term "rubbish" in an earlier comment.

    Now I wrote that in a hurry, hope I made some sense.

    I fully agree that the Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians, Lebanese, and "Israelis" should grow to see each other as one people – I fully agree there is no difference. We fully respect your freedom to make your choices; that is not the source of the argument. The source of the argument is: Zionism made a choice for a group of people at other people's expense. Now you are defending that choice in partial "absolutes". That's where we cannot swallow it. We are not denying you the choice; we are contesting the deprivation of it by "you".

    I also agree with Rhianon that the financial and political aid to "Israel" over the last 35 years has had its toll. Now I am not saying it fully covers all of that entity's expenses (remember), the zionist settlers(?) did not have to pay rent or buy houses. A booster of any country. If you know a game called SIM CITY. Assume Israel receives 2 billion dollars a year in financial aid. Now pure business logic says that in the best of cases, money in a bank doubles every 7 years because of compounded interest. If you invest that money in higher returns, it will probably double every 2-3 years. Now if quick math says the real value of the aid is something like 100 billion dollars. I can do the exact math over my NPV program if you want, and I can tell you the real dollar value.

    Now if you take money and inject it into an economy, there is something called the multiplier effect. That multiplier is on average 4-7 times. So, government injects 1 billion in spending, the real economic growth is 4-7 times. How, you get a subsidy, you buy a car, car salesperson buys a house (from a settler who robbed it from a Palestinian), and the settler buys a ticket and moves to Madagascar, and the travel agent deposits money in bank, and an industrialist takes a loan to build a factory to pay salaries to people who will also buy cars and tickets to Madagascar.

    To eat apples, you do not transplant a whole tree, that would be costly and might not always work. For the price of an apple tree, you buy (or rob) a piece of land, plant 300 apple seedlings, invest in an irrigation system (water stolen from Lebanon), and in 10 years you end up with 300 trees.

    Now I was a bit graphic and in rough terms, but that’s economics 101 with a pinch of agricultural demo.

    We are not denying that the settlers are hard working people, but let's say they didn’t have to pay for rent, or to desalinate water, or to worry about financing for some time. I am surprised Israel is not doing better economically. Lebanon's per capita income is approx 5500-6000$. Now we have 40 billion dollars of debt, (more thanks to IDF), and have suffered from everything starting a 15 year civil war to 3 invasions and near eradications from 1973 onwards… If we take the per capita income of pre-war Lebanon (1975) and project it till 2006, theoretically we would probably be higher than "Israel's", without the financial aid.

    In other words, yes, Israel's economic success is a direct outcome of direct financial aid.

    Oh yes, "Israel" does not have to pay for weapons to destroy our economy either.

    ReplyDelete
  22. ZIONIST RULE#5

    When presented with excellent rhetoric,
    great examples for one to understand points, and reasoning skills, spoken with
    patience, thoroughness and explicitly…..

    We will provoke anger, irritation, and confusion for our debater by….

    BEING PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BY:

     PRETENDING WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING EXPLAINED TO US

     ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS 3 OR 4 TIMES AND THEN SIMPLY DISAGREEING ANYWAY

     PRETENDING WE REALLY WANT DIALOGUE BUT IN FACT WE JUST WANT TO PLAY GAMES SO AS TO TAUNT THIS PERSON

     DISTORT, MUDDY, AND DISREGARD CLEAR POINTS

     PROVIDE HALF-ASSED ARGUMENTS AS TO OMIT IMPORTANT TRUTHS

     PRETENDING WE WANT PEACE WHEN IN FACT (SHHHH! - WE ARE A WARMONGERING PEOPLE AND WE LOVE OUR WARMONGERING GOVERNMENT OF ‘ISRAEL’)

     PRETENDING WE WANT PEACE WHEN (SHHHHH! - WE CANNOT WAIT TO INVADE LEBANON AGAIN BECAUSE WE DON’T WANT LEBANON TO SURPASS US IN ECONOMICAL GROWTH AND DEMOCRACY)

    I am not using caps to scream. I just want poor e – as in elephants that fly – to try to understand the words he doesn’t see well – poor widdo ting.

    ReplyDelete
  23. [according to Zionist rule #5]

    [the atheist jew] “The basic fact is that the Arabs should have accepted the 1947 UN partition plan. They had a choice and blew it. That is a pity. The Jews never forced them not to accept it.”


    The atheist jews never forced Arabs NOT to accept it?

    What distortion is this? Your last sentence is an utter and complete throwaway. You make absolutely no sense. I suppose you flung that in to make the atheist jews look ‘innocent’? Yes, that would be your scheme.

    The basic fact is the atheist jews never accepted the 1947 UN partition plan either.

    How you conveniently left that out.

    So let’s say the Palestinians accepted the partition plan. It would have not have made a difference because ATHEIST JEWS HAD NO INTENTIONS OF MAKING A TRUCE WITH THE PALESTINIANS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Do not play games here.

    They didn’t blow it, there was nothing for them to blow away. Atheist jews were never going to give Palestine a state, be a nation, to have secure, free and peaceful borders, nor have an economy. Atheist jews planned from day one to create a slow motion holocaust for the Palestinians as to wipe them off the face of the map with Europe and USA-paid-for WMD.

    Atheist jews in stolen 'israel' have never defined their borders as chunk by chunk they keep stealing land from the Palestinians.

    ReplyDelete
  24. You are an atheist jew. You do not care about God, Jesus, or any of the other prophets of God. You hate and despise anything about God or Jesus. But you double-speak and say that God is on your side. You double-speak and sell to the world that Jesus was a Jew. You only package these blasphemies for sale so that you can hurt people.

    So I will bring back the topic of God and Jesus – as this is as pleasant a topic for you as long nails scratching and screeching across a chalkboard:

    To love and bless Israel means to hold Israel accountable, as did God, to the teachings of justice and peace by the prophets.

    There are twenty-one passages in the Old Testament that specifically give rights to aliens, Palestinians in the case of current Israel.

    Speaking thru the prophet Jeremiah, God said, “If you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, then I will dwell with you in this place…” (Jer. 7:6-7).

    And “The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God” (Lev. 19:33-34).

    YET CHRISTIAN ZIONISM OMITS THESE TWENTY ONE PASSAGES FROM THEIR NARRATIVE.

    The Great Commandment given by Jesus:

    “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    ========
    [ramban] “I don’t care about Lebanon”.
    ========

    On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Mt. 22:34-40).

    ========

    The apostle Paul writes:

    “For [Christ] is our peace; in his flesh he has made both groups into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us” (Eph. 2:14).

    Because in Christ “There is no longer Jew or Greek” (Gal. 3:28-29), we are called to show such kindness toward all of God’s people.

    ==========

    WE AS INDIVIDUALS ARE NOT BLESSED; THE UNITED STATES IS NOT BLESSED, NOR IS ISRAEL BLESSED IF WE ENCOURAGE AND SUPPORT ISRAEL IN ITS VIOLATION OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES.

    ==========

    BTW I am a she, not a he.

    ReplyDelete
  25. And that would be:

    ZIONIST RULE #1 & #2 & #3.

    Reject, Refute, debase, Steal.

    See how easy it was to make you fall in the trap.

    I don’t blame you, we ARE on opposite sides after all.

    Back to square one. We will never stop until we win, give it your best shot.

    I wish the end of the so called “Israel” is peaceful and civil, and I pray that is achieved through integration. Otherwise, as I keep saying, I’m not the one who will be calling the shots or stopping them.

    As for other comments regarding other people’s business, I would add a Zionist Rule #6: wish and work for evil.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I am still reading these threads. It did get a little heated there for minute, but I think you both smiled.

    Three points;

    1.) Lebanon should move toward Europe. She should align herself with the West, much like Turkey has. Her furture is brighter both economically, socially and stability wise to do so. She needs to free herself of Hezbolleh, or asimilate them into a recognized and accountable military force.

    2.) Israel needs to stop the poor treatment of Palestinians. The building of walls and settlements is provocative. The frustrations of endless security checkpoints, and the difficulty of average life is creating more threats than they are subsiding. Furthermore these policies smack of totalitarianism, and legitimise's their acts of terror in parts of the Arab world.

    3.) The Palestinians should recognize Israel, and come to grips with this reality. They should demand the same treatment of their citizens living in Arab countries, that they are demanding of Israel. The Palestinians are treated as second class citizens through-out the region. They would be best served with their own State living in peace, than continuous turmoil that is limiting their dignity and leaves them more vunerable to abuse. They also should be more resposible in their electronic communications and education of their youth. War is not an education, it is ignorance.

    These are a few thoughts from an outsider looking in.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Basically, as you are a “Jewish” person, you are really saying that to be a child of God is of no importance but to be a Jew is everything.

    Of course, you are wrong but that is what you are saying.

    But then why wouldn’t you regard your jewishness highly, even if it makes no sense? You have been wined and dined and thought of as a highly prized individual by Christian Zionists for so long that that you have begun to believe that load of crap.

    The Bible makes it utterly clear that to be a jew or not is of no significance in our relationship to God. God is no respector of any race.

    ReplyDelete
  28. The little Buddha is back:

    "The Palestinians should recognize Israel, and come to grips with this reality."

    Did you get these words from a "How To Be A Zionist But Say You Are A Buddhist?" pamplet?

    Do you have any idea how many times those words have been said on all the fanatical zionist TV channels in Neocon N.A. and for 30 years?

    Do you think you are being clever?

    Did you think you said something NEW and ORIGINAL and INSPIRING with that zionist-neocon dull rote?

    Well maybe Palestine would recognize 'israel' if she could get the BLOOD OUT OF HER EYES and take a break from BURYING HER CHILDREN.

    ReplyDelete
  29. My 9:09 AM, November 01, 2006 comment was to e.

    ============

    [emory/buddha] "They also should be more resposible in their electronic communications and education of their youth. War is not an education, it is ignorance."

    Perhaps you should take your pipes, incense, candles, pillows and Deepak Chopra books and have a meditation with the fanatical atheist jews in Hebron.

    Why don't you explain it THEM? THat war is not an education, it is ignorance?

    Why don't you tell the fanatical atheist jewish settlers in Hebron to be more responsible in their electronic communications and education of their youth?

    Might do a world of good for the Palestinian children trying to go to school and get a decent education themselves

    ReplyDelete
  30. e,
    We have a term in Lebanese which goes: Ballah Shou?? As in - Huh?!

    I was referring to the trap, namely Zionist ZIONIST RULE #1 & #2 & #3. Reject, Refute, debase, Steal. Instead of sticking to the argument, you refute it by either rejecting its validity, refuting the statement, debasing it, and throwing sand into one's eyes by redirecting attention. Now the case does not rest here. Rule#6 is wishing and working for evil.

    The jewish settlers were celebrating. Well bly me I should be happy. Of course, if I steal and get away with it, watch me teach you how to dance.

    The UN? Oh yes sure. I won't even go to the UN partiality and ineffectiveness, I will just assume the UN is respectable, and that Arabs did not abide by the UN resolutions, there are 160 UN resolutions that Israel has not abided by since 1948 - Literally, ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY. I have the list. Pick a year from 1948 onwards -

    Guess what, if the Lebanese start killing each other, you should be worried too. We're a mad people at the brink of civil war, aren't we?? Half the weapons will be on the boders hitting Israel, and we can play the invade-resist-invade game again. By the time we have nothing more to lose, every loss is yours - and they will keep coming at you.

    This time, perhaps some mad terrorist sneaks a nuclear or chemical bomb in. You know what? I just hope he drops it over you, you die, we fry, and you throw another back. The world will be rid of both Jews and Arabs. If Hitler weren't successful in killing jews, then the Jews should go ahead and get themselves killed being so arrogant. Arabs can die too, we can use a population decrease - and what's 150 million? One life, one milion lives, six million lives, one hundred fifty million lives. No need to worry, the jewish settlers were dancing.. Well let them dance to what's coming to them, and to us. Let them dance over the graves of the dead... If there's anybody left.

    I am sorry this has to end this way, but I fail to see how you wish to carry it forth. Selective Historic Amnesia gives me allergy.
    Future visual impairement drives me nuts.

    ReplyDelete
  31. The majority of the Jews and Jewish groups accepted the proposal, in particular the Jewish Agency, which was the Jewish state-in-formation.

    A MINORITY OF EXTREME NATIONALIST JEWISH GROUPS LIKE MENACHEM BEGIN'S IRGUN TSVAI LEUMI AND YITZHAK SHAMIR'S LEHI, (KNOWN AS THE STERN GANG) WHICH HAD BEEN FIGHTING THE BRITISH, REJECTED IT.

    BEGIN WARNED THAT THE PARTITION WON'T BRING PEACE BECAUSE THE ARABS WILL ALSO ATTACK THE SMALL STATE AND THAT "IN THE WAR AHEAD WE'LL HAVE TO STAND ON OUR OWN, IT WILL BE A WAR ON OUR EXISTENCE AND FUTURE". Numerous records indicate the joy of Palestine's Jewish inhabitants as they attended to the U.N. session voting for the division proposal. Up to this day, Israeli history books mention November 29th (the date of this session) as the most important date in Israel's acquisition of independence, and many Israeli cities commemerate the date in their streets' names. HOWEVER, JEWS DID CRITICISE THE LACK OF TERRITORIAL CONTINUITY FOR THE JEWISH STATE.


    ZIONISTS DID NOT ACCEPT THE UN PARTITION PLAN. ZIONISTS SEIZED AREAS BEYOND THE PROPOSED JEWISH STATE AND DID NOT RECOGNIZE THE INTERNATIONAL ZONE.

    USING FORCE AND TERRORISM MONTHS BEFORE MAY 1948, JEWS SEIZED LAND BEYOND THE UN PROPOSED BORDERS.

    THE UN PLAN WAS USED AS A PRETENSE FOR TAKING OVER MOST OF PALESTINE.

    ReplyDelete
  32. This is a critical fact often omitted when the history is presented and this leads to a very distorted view of what happened in 1948.

    THE MISLEADING STORY OFTEN TOLD IS THAT "JEWS DECLARED ISRAEL AND THEN THEY WERE ATTACKED."

    THE FACT IS FROM NOVEMBER 1947 TO MAY 1948 THE ZIONISTS WERE ALREADY ON THE OFFENSIVE AND HAD ALREADY ATTACKED ARABS.

    IN THE MONTHS BEFORE ISRAEL WAS DECLARED, THE ZIONISTS HAD DRIVEN 300,000 NON-JEWS OFF THEIR LAND.

    IN THE MONTHS BEFORE ISRAEL WAS DECLARED, THE ZIONISTS HAD SEIZED LAND BEYOND THE PROPOSED JEWISH STATE.

    ReplyDelete
  33. IT IS THE ZIONISTS THAT PUSHED FOR THE RADICAL IDEA THAT THE LAND BE DIVIDED UP SO THAT A "PURE" RACIALLY ESTABLISHED STATE OF JEWS COULD BE ESTABLISHED.

    They didn't want to live as equal citizens as is expected of all religions in America.

    BUT THE DIVISION WAS ONLY CONSIDERED TEMPORARY BY THEM SINCE THEIR GOAL WAS AND IS TO TAKE OVER ALL OF PALESTINE.

    THE KEY ZIONISTS HAD NO INTENTION OF ACCEPTING THAT UN PARTITION, a recommendation to chop up Palestine into 7 parts.

    67% of the population didn't want that done.

    IN 1938 BEN-GURION SAID TO OTHER ZIONISTS, “AFTER WE BECOME A STRONG FORCE, AS THE RESULT OF THE CREATION OF A STATE, WE SHALL ABOLISH THE PARTITION AND EXPAND TO THE WHOLE OF PALESTINE.”

    Jewish atheist Menachem Begin

    Sure enough, after the creation of the state in 1948, Menachem Begin made clear how serious the “Jews accepting the UN partition” was in reality.....

    “THE PARTITION OF THE HOMELAND IS ILLEGAL . IT WILL NEVER BE RECOGNIZED.
    THE SIGNATURE OF INSTITUTIONS AND INDIVIDUALS OF THE PARTITION AGREEMENT IS INVALID.
    IT WILL NOT BIND THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

    Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital.

    Eretz Israel (the land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever“.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Why is the rejection of the 1937 Peel Partition plan justifiable according to many Zionists, but the Arabs' rejection of the 1947 UN GA Partition plan is not?

    ReplyDelete
  35. The mindless ramblings of a jewish atheist who enjoys badgering and playing games:

    "You agree that the majority of the Jews accepted the 47 partition plan."

    YOU DO NOT READ WELL. RE-READ AND STOP MUDDYING UP ISSUES.

    ===================

    "small scale war started right after the UN vote. But it was because the Arabs rejected the partition plan."

    YOU DO NOT READ WELL. RE-READ AND STOP MUDDYING UP ISSUES.

    ReplyDelete
  36. "The Begin quotes are irrelevant. He was a minority voice and as I said, Ben Gurion would not even talk to him."

    Here is where your WHOLE ARGUMENT FALLS APART.

    You just gave me a piece of JUNK. ZIONIST-jewish atheist- double-talk JUNK.

    In other words "us poor jews did so much for the nasty Arabs!"

    Complete LIE. You know it and so you play your ZIONIST RULES AKA GAME-PLAYING. Feigning innocence.

    ==============

    I copied that part ALL from wikepedia. EASILY ALTERED, NOT RELIABLE WIKEPEDIA.

    I notice you put the positive-innocent zionist intention twice in your post. Those aren't my words. THat is YOUR WIKEPEDIA.

    I made a point that wikepedia also made fact of Begin being against the partition, which is MOST REVEALING - AND NOW YOU ARE NOT SO INNOCENT AFTER ALL.

    Zionist rule # 7

    Play up the Positive good stuff (even though it is a LIE) about zionist intentions.

    Play way down and ignore the Negative Bad stuff about the zionist intention (even though it is the TRUTH).

    ReplyDelete
  37. MORE ZIONIST FABRICATIONS, DISTORTIONS, GAMES, MANIPULATIONS, AND LIES.

    The ramblings of a jewish atheist:

    "What does this mean except that you agree that the majority of the Jews accepted the 47 partition? I am really baffled."

    That info came from wikepedia. Not everything in wikepedia is clear, true, or factual. Now I know how much those words hurt you zionist eyes.

    Now. I also included the Menecham Begin item AGAINST THE 47 PARTITION BECAUSE THIS INFO IS IN OTHER PLACES AS WELL. I pasted that in my next post, too.

    I do not agree to anything that is to YOUR LIKING SWEETIE. Don't put intentions and words into my mouth and mind. Your arrogance and conceit are stifling at best.

    Those majority of jews meant nothing, anyway, if they did agree, as YOU SAY and wikepedia says.

    Shortly AFTER, the massacres of the Palestinians began - did the majority of those jews care?

    Who were some of the leaders and creators (among others) of these massacres against the Palestinians to murder, steal more land, and their belongings-looting - in 1947?

    Menachem Begin
    Ariel Sharon
    Ben Gurion

    ReplyDelete
  38. MORE ZIONIST FABRICATIONS, DISTORTIONS, GAMES, MANIPULATIONS, AND LIES.

    The ramblings of a jewish atheist:

    "The majority of Jews supported the plan. A minority rejected it. Read the text.
    The wikipedia link:"

    THe zionists aka jewishatheists LOVE their wikepedia. Like it's another god for them to WORSHIP.

    But I digress.

    The majority of the jews accepted the plan?

    So what?

    They had NO POWER. They go along with their LEADERSHIP. THeir was NO REVOLT against:

    BEGIN
    SHARON
    BEN GURION

    You telling me - like your handing me a piece of limp lettuce and calling it a meal - that bengurion and begin didn't get a long, I have this to say:

    Whoop dee doo, and who gives a RAT'S ASS?

    I'm sure all the HUNDREDS OF slaughtered Palestinian men , women, and children didn't give a fig, EITHER.

    ReplyDelete
  39. MORE ZIONIST FABRICATIONS, DISTORTIONS, GAMES, MANIPULATIONS, AND LIES.

    The crumbling ramblings of a jewish atheist:


    "They lobbied for the partition, they danced in the street when it passed yet you know that their intention was that it won't pass. Are you joking? Every single action of the majority of the Jews showed that they wanted and accepted the partition."

    =============

    Of course they did. They had slaughtered Palestinian men, women, and children since the mid-30s!

    Of course they LIED and said they were DEFENDING THEMSELVES against 'hostile' arabs, but they LIE when they say that.

    So sure they danced in the streets and accepted the partition because:

    They were already dancing on the graves of the Palestinians.

    They knew or didn't know that the intentions of their Leadership was planning another massacre, therefore more murder, displacement of Arab people and stealing of Arab land.

    Of course they accepted the Partition and danced in the streets.

    Their powerful, vicious, monster leaders DID NOT accept the Partition and had no intention of honoring it.

    And they didn't.

    And you know that, my little zionist peakfrean jewishatheist.

    ReplyDelete
  40. MORE ZIONIST FABRICATIONS, DISTORTIONS, GAMES, MANIPULATIONS, AND LIES.

    The crumbling ramblings of a jewish atheist:


    the topic jewishatheist kept beating me up about:

    "Wake up. If the Arabs would have accepted the 47 partition plan there would not have been any war. It is as simple as that. The Arabs met in November and December of 47 and decided on the military option. They are responsible for the war and its outcome."

    and I say:

    Why is the rejection of the 1937 Peel Partition plan justifiable according to many Zionists, but the Arabs' rejection of the 1947 UN GA Partition plan is not?

    Didn't answer me on that one.

    I will answer:

    The Arabs rejected Peel becuase it was a most Humiliating and inhuman proposal for their integrity and livelihood - and you knew that.

    Here is the answer from one of your own in detail:

    Moshe Sharett, a most ardent of Zionists explains why the Arabs rejected the 1947 Partition and were justified to do so:

    "In contrast to the jews, the Palestinians would lose totally that part of Palestine which they consider to be Arab country; they would lose the richest part of Palestine.

     They would lose major Arab assets, the orange plantations

     Commericial and industrial centers

     The most important sources of revenue for their government which would become impoverished

     They would lose most of the coastal area, which would also be loss to the hinterland [Palestinian] Arab states

    This would be such an uprooting, such a shock, the likes of which had never occurred and could drown the whole thing in rivers of blood....."

    With the Peel proposal the Arabs are alotted a good 60% to 70% more land than the '47 Partition!

    If Moshe Sharett describes the healthy, prosperous, abundant resources, and fertility of land given to the Jews and NOT the Arabs in 1937 Peel.....

    Then WHY should the Arabs settle for so much less - an undignified, inhuman 60-70% of LESS LAND in the 47 partition?

    That's why your jewish atheists were dancing in the streets on the graves of Palestinians and the future graves of Palestinians BECAUSE:

    begin
    sharon
    bengurion

    WANTED IT ALL. THEY WANTED NOTHING FOR THE ARABS.

    The majority of the jews didn't care anyway and they had no power and they followed their leadership into the next MASSACRE OF ARAB PEOPLE AFTER THE 47 PARTITION.

    And all within those years from the 30s and on, zionists from europe were piling in like gangs of thugs, time after time, to buy up more land and cause trouble among the Arabs and begin their Massacres.

    So between '35 and '48 vicious crimes of murder of ARabs by zionists were going on ..

    Even before 1935, the zionists were coming in from Europe and purchasing land in alarming rates.

    The Arabs were beginning to understand their fate.

    You gave them no choice but to fight back. And they lost, because they didn't have your candy weapons and candy cash from Europe and USA.

    Your ancestors murdered those people and stole their land and you DARE to say you got nothing for free?

    And pigs fly...

    and traffic lights in tel aviv flash green and red at the same time...

    and you are a jewishatheist...

    ReplyDelete
  41. BBB,
    We have a new term here. So here on this blog it is jewishatheist suffering, jewishatheist security, and jewishatheist history.

    Yes, I have learned this about wikepedia. I won't post anything from that source again.

    He latches on to that one bit in wikepedia like a dog to a bone.

    grrrrrrrr!

    ReplyDelete
  42. Dear Fadi,

    I was debating so much that I forgot to tell you how much I laughed when you told of your mother's reaction to the jewishatheist explanation of a jewishatheist.

    I have a good memory of my grandmother sitting in her favourite velvet green chair and I am asking her about ariel sharon.

    Right away her face darkened and she put her big strong hands together (she did a lot of cooking, gardening, and sewing when she was alive) and twisted her fingers around each other and said in tight angry voice:

    "I'd like to take his face in my hands and pull the skin of his face."

    ReplyDelete
  43. e,

    A few comments and a response to your inquiry:
    1- I sense you are opening up as a racist preacher and fail to see that at this article, the Zionist dogma is on trial (we can trial whatever other dogmas on other articles). If I were you, I would save my breath demeaning Arabs or lovingly guiding them to what they should do. In other words, when under trial, respond to the charges, not throw ones – it's not serving the purpose of the ARGUMENT. It's an "I accuse you" argument.

    2- I have a degree in Business &Economics, and working on my MA in History and International Relations – in response to belittling the "layman's terminology to foreign aid and multiplier effect," I'm quite amazed you actually contested the economic side yet did not respond to the "stealing," part. I'm sure economists should revisit the "windfall" effect of UN resolutions granting property and foreign financing on the economies of leech societies – great topic for an MA in Economic History.

    3- On the UN resolutions, if the UN miraculously issues a Resolution for the partition of "Israel" into two, for a simple reason that 20-30% of that "entity" are Arabs (a hypothesis). How do you think you will respond? I am being hypothetical here. Do you agree, or will you go dig your ancestral claims to the right of national home? Why do you think you can fit one thing to another people but not to the Arabs in 1947?

    Well, guess what, assume the Arabs might have been slow to see what was coming to them back then. In 2002, the Arab Summit in Beirut offered a peace plan. Let's flip the coin here. Israel is lagging. We could have avoided bloodshed in the West Bank, a few dozen bombs in "Israeli" colonies, and 2006 war. Take a look at what's coming to you; if you were ever good perpetrators, you should know better than to repeat what you claim is our mistake as Arabs.

    (by the way, I can imagine how your response will be like, wish we had a secret box to guess your answers under the Zionist Response Manual).

    4- If by another miracle you say you will theoretically accept, then I can only urge you to please proceed with implementing the standing UN resolutions requiring protection of civilians for a start, and withdrawal from occupied neighboring lands. After all, "Israel" is a democracy; hence your voices are heard. For the fun of it, I will lash one unnecessary verbal abuse in response to your last under the belt sly comments..I should say,, talk to your government once your President gets his pants back-on..

    5- While Wikepedia is a very enlightening source of general information, I fear that it is not a historically valid one. It is subjective by nature, and there is no room for revision or for counterarguments or for fine-tuning of the information included or for representation of various arguments: My objective response, and from an academic standpoint, it's not a valid source for historic information.

    ReplyDelete
  44. e:

    There goes the grading / degrading:

    Point 1: You couldn't help it. Let's stick to "israel". Oil money has nothing to do with our argument.

    Point 2: Leech is a bug - a parasite (para means outsider) which sticks on a foreign body and sucks its blood. It can grow into enormous size and can kill the animal. I was descriptive here of the society that in 1948 thrived on newly gained territory and looted houses". Not more not less.

    Point 3: You got me wrong, and by the way you used a ZRM quote (demeaning, distorting, and throwing blame on others). I am a pacifist, but I am not stupid, and I am at war, only I wish it would be a non-violent one, so don't take me for granted. I was saying we play a game -- assuming the UN in 2006 issues a resolution saying that "israel" should be divided into two (somewhat like the 1947 resolution) - how would you e have taken it. Would you have submitted?

    Point 3-b: thanks for admitting an "israeli" stagger. If you were an Arab in 1947, You too would have seen the UN resolution as vague, da da dad a. In history, retrospection is invalid. I was trying to say if you were in our shoes, you probably would have done the same given all the circumstances of the times. With one difference, "israel" did not exist in 1947; it leeched up starting mid-1948. I can say also add it Goliathed in 2006, and it will be "Davided" in due course.. You claim that we were mistaken in 1947…Well e, guess what, We ain't mistaken now, we want what’s ours, and we will get it… As lllllllllong as it takes.

    Point 3-c: I thought we agreed earlier that the right of return, Justified as it is, might not be practical from the "israeli" perspective – for the time being. Nonetheless, instead of putting an end to the process, "israel" was not willing to look into it. Amazingly, "israel" requires everyone to look at and accept its own plans. What better words to preach that your own??

    ِA confession, in retrospect, knowing what we know today= I believe the Arabs should have accepted the 1947 UN partition plan even though it was unfair to them. I agree with that statement, notwithstanding the "retrospective invalidity" of history. Also, if we could "see" back, we should have seen back before 1492 when the Arabs took in the Jewish displaced from Andalusia into their societies, they should have asked them to keep walking until they found the straight of Madagascar, then ask them to perform a miracle and split the sea into two, and you know the rest of the story...

    - ZRM Grading = pretty well, I'm sure you have the best kept for last..

    Point 4: Katsav is a worm -- well I have nothing against insects or crawling objects, and I do believe that all guilty should go to jail – and by order of harm, he comes last on my "wanted" list. In turn, our president is also a worm, but he still manages to keep his pants on (but not his dentures I guess!).

    Why don’t the Arabs give "israel" a good example?
    aa- Bloody Hell e, please count the number of UN resolutions against Arabs? Run some math, see the sequence, and then try to bluff someone who falls for a question of such insinuation.
    bb- As a reminder of aa, and again, Stop evading the issue.

    Point 5- You asked me what I thought of Wikepedia, and I answered. I never said you quoted Wikipedia. So, that proves I was trying to be objective, and you were trying to set me up.. Barely working!! The quotes in Rhiannon's articles and quotes are validated across any historic resource you go to. Actually, you can easily run by those of worse nature. But I'm glad your only problem with Rhiannon is the validation of his sources. I can do the homework, but please give me some time to do the research. Cite the quotations you contest, and I will gladly prove them from VALID, Proven, and uncontestable sources.

    But then again, what good will it do, at best, you can simple use Demeaning Method from the ZRM and say: Begin, Sharon, Ben Geurion are all worthless worms.

    I'd rather go clubbing on a Saturday night than do research...

    Why don’t you please proceed to prove the contrary? "You" are under trial.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Since 'israel's fraudulent and gory existence IT has always used the military solution to the conflicts. 'israel can never win. It has been LOSING all these years.

    No country can survive with so much vicious, bloody warmongering as does 'israel' and hope to continue without paying a severe price.

    'israel' is and always will be responsible for the results.

    All your ramblings cannot change the facts.

    ReplyDelete
  46. e,

    You said all I wanted to hear the way I wanted to hear it.

    Perhaps you can do me the honour of commenting on my forthcoming article.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Oh e! You're too kind!

    I said I heard what I "Wanted" to hear, I didn't say I liked it, or that I buy it!

    As for evasion, probably its partly due to my genetic "Jewish" lineage, I guess that is a good enough explanation for the tendency. But I stand humbled and in awe in front of yours -

    I also stand smiling...If there were ever a truer or more honest exposee of the inner mind of an "Israeli"?

    Finally, despite all your best efforts, you spelled out what I wanted to hear - we have an uncovered a land-mine site, but better see it as one that mistake it for a bed of roses!!!

    Now we have to figure out a way to deal with that, but then again, let's wait patiently for the future..

    I wouldn't wait if I were you!! For the future, I mean.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Wikepedia, as I have discovered, is really a zionist creation.

    It never ends!

    So.

    The part that you keep beating everybody up about is the part you like.

    That part wasn't the truth.

    Figures.

    So my little wikepedia egghead....how many posts are you gonna badger us with until we tell you WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR.

    It won't happen.

    But you can dream.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Bonjour e,

    You skillfully try to shift the dialogue from Israel on Trial to Wikipedia on trial.

    Where do you stand on the Beit Hanoun Massacre. How do dead civilians serve the "Israeli" best interests? Or are they a sacrifice to Jahova by one fanatic General before the upcoming religious season?

    Debate that fact before you jump to future hypthesis or past inexistentialities.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Rhiannon:

    That explains the Wiki in Wikipedia:
    Wicked?!

    e:
    From an academic point of view, again, since Wikipedia is a source of information open to cut, past, apply variation, addition, deletion, distortion, and reassembly of facts, I agree it shows extreme similarities to the Zionist Sources.

    I have a confession in return, the Elders of Zion are our invention, just like Hanna Berberi the Lebanese descendants launched the Flinstones back in the good old days.

    loll...

    ReplyDelete
  51. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Do you think it is irrational to deny undisputable historical facts?

    ReplyDelete
  52. "What happened in Beit Hannoun is a tragic mistake that should not have happened. It was a stupid mistake that cost innocent lives."

    ===========

    See what happens, Fadi? We order Steak, roasted potatoes, artichokes smothered in butter, and what do we get instead?

    A bowl of stale frootloops, from the zionist kitchen.

    ============

    YOU JUST ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION ABOUT ZIONIST WIKIPEDIA

    ReplyDelete
  53. "What happened in Beit Hannoun is a tragic mistake"

    Which equals

    "We are very sorry about Qana, but it was "mistake".

    Which equals


    'The Arabs don't want dialogue in peace, but we, the israelis do"

    Which equals

    "The majority of jews agreed to the UN partition of 47"

    Which means:

    FALSE ON ALL COUNTS.

    Just more stale bowls of Frootloops served on huge dinner platters in the Zionist Houses of Wax, Cards, Mirrors and Horrors.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Fadi,

    your 'friend' is like a retarded little mongrel. "IT" will continue to beat you up forever on the wikepedia frootloops after we just answered 750 times.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Now "IT" dares to bring up Socrates - I suppose Socrates was a jew, also? More Frootloops to swig down as they are very soggy, indeed.

    Of course! THat is what all the zionists like to say! The BEST belong to them (sic).

    Did Einstein belong to 'israel' and the Zionists?

    You wish! In your zionist dreams!

    ReplyDelete
  56. Who do you love?

    Norman Finkelstein?
    Ilan Pappe?
    Dr. Alfred Lillienthal?

    ===========

    In this segment excerpts from Dr. Lillienthal's book are reproduced, which also contain some quotes from Einstein.

    The 850+ page book is a MUST READ for anyone seeking to understand the Zionism, Israel, modern media, the Middle East, US political apparatus and much more.

    Lilienthal thoroughly documented all references.

    According to Lilienthal, many American Jews did not envision Israel as an exclusivist Zionist/Jewish entity.

    Point of note and also in contrast; despite his wholehearted support for the Jews to reclaim their dignity and security, Einstein was a universalist.


    Despite being an eminent newspaper, the New York Times' Zionist bias is all too well known.

    Lilienthal provides a detailed account of NYT's role in "KIDNAPPING OF EINSTEIN FOR ISRAEL."

    "I also personally endeavored to set the Times' record straight on one rather important matter--THE EXPLOITATION OF DR. ALBERT EINSTEIN BY THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT.

    When the greatest scientist of our age died on April 18, 1956, at the age of seventy-six, the Times in the course of its eulogy referred to 'Israel, whose establishment as a state he had championed.'

    This 'kidnapping' of Einstein for Israel was one of the most extraordinary coups ever perpetrated by any political group anywhere, BUT WITH THE HELP OF THE OMNIPOTENT TIMES ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

    The great mathematician had VIGOROUSLY OPPOSED THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL, BUT A MYTH TO THE CONTRARY HAS BEEN WIDELY SPAWNED BY THE MEDIA, AND WAS REPEATED SIXTEEN YEARS LATER.

    ReplyDelete
  57. In late March 1972 the New York Times published a series of articles dealing with the life and thought of Albert Einstein as allegedly revealed in the collection of his manuscripts, letters, and other papers, which were to be published by his estate.


    The third of the series included on the front page a three-column photograph of Einstein with Israeli Premier David Ben-Gurion, and the caption read: 'Einstein papers tell of scientist's efforts toward the creation of Israel.'

    The article further referred 'to his long efforts in behalf of the creation of a Jewish national state and of his sad refusal' to accept the Presidency upon the death of Chaim Weizmann.

    EINSTEIN, DESPITE THE TIME'S INCESSANT RECITALS TO THE CONTRARY, CLEARLY OPPOSED THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

    A clear understanding of the position taken on Palestine by the great mathematician, himself a refugee from Nazi Germany, will not only set the record straight and correct journalistic inaccuracies, but is most relevant to the continuing quest for a just peace in the Middle East." [pp. 340-341]

    What was really Einstein’s view regarding the creation of the State of Israel?

    Dr. Lilienthal went to Princeton to see Einstein and pose the question directly to him.

    "Then, in 1952, in a message to a 'Children to Palestine' dinner, Einstein spoke of the NECESSITY OF CURBING 'A KIND OF NATIONALISM WHICH HAS ARISEN IN ISRAEL IF ONLY TO PERMIT A FRIENDLY AND FRUITFUL CO-EXISTENCE WITH THE ARABS.'


    When this portion of the Einstein message WAS CENSORED IN THE ORGANIZATION'S PRESS RELEASE SO AS TO IMPART THE IMPRESSION OF ALL-OUT SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL, I went to Princeton to seek the Professor's views on the incident.

    EINSTEIN THEN TOLD ME THAT HE HAD NEVER BEEN A ZIONIST AND HAD NEVER FAVORED THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.[IV]

    It was then that he also told me of a significant conversation with Weizmann. Einstein had asked him: 'What of the Arabs if Palestine were given to the Jews?'

    And Weizmann replied: 'What Arabs? They are hardly of any consequence.' " [p. 341]

    ReplyDelete
  58. E,

    I certainly did not cede the discussion, but I am exercising the same rights of evasion you have done all through. I do not feel obliged to respond when I do not get answers. Apply "accusation of silence as incriminating evidence" into the ZRM.

    If you find it frustrating, then you know how I would feel when I ask a question and get an accusation instead – from the one on trial!! I don’t end up with an answer. Allegories, resemblances, and the rest of the "draw-similarities" to escape responsibility are not relevant in my opinion to the discussion, neither pressure, most certainly!

    Then I find myself debating with a racist person – now THAT is where I lose my temper; in a way, in her rage, Rhiannon seems to get you off-guard? To your racist comments, I can say: if only all Jews built universities instead of colonies, the world would be a better place. If Einstein built a university, perhaps he was trying to instill some sense to the hoards of colonialist outcasts, the Ghetto cavemen of Europe, the "demons" of Hitler, the "Dirt" (Vichy), fleeing from Europe to leech on somebody else blood and land, and then call themselves superior. Nice Try Shlomo! How's that for a starter?

    In response to your funny statement, "Israel has international support," it is perhaps the world is exercising containment & confinement policy; perhaps they were exercising the "dumpsite policy." Could it be they did not want a bunch of Zionist blood drinking mongers running in their streets spreading evil and decadence eating Christian babies for their Easter festivities? You can ask them, how would WE KNOW? We're megre Arabs!

    Next time you throw a racist comment, make sure you remember you ancestors wore yellow branding, sat on donkey backwards, and remember how if would feel to sit at a back of bus, and how your illustrious Jewish scientists were herded into concentration camps like cattle. It was in the glorious USA – Einstein's adopted country that the "No Blacks, No Jews, No Dogs" signs were hung. It was from Einstein's home country (& yours) that they were murdered and humiliated. How dare you be racist after this? One of three options: It was all a lie, you are a hypocrite, or you're JUST about to apologize to YOURSELF before you do to anyone else.

    Maybe the Arabs were not scientists (sic), but they weren't those who turned "your people" into soap bars either. So next time you mention Arabs, try to be respectful, realistic, and count your blessings. Net time you try to flaunt your superiority, think that you could have been sod or fertilizer because over thousands of years, closed minded lunatics gave themselves that right to crack a "joke," that could turn serious one day, and that COULD turn serious in the future.

    If Einstein knew what the so called "Israel" would turn into, or what the Hebrew University could yield, he probably would have recommended testing the first atomic bomb on campus SITE, and set his own property on FIRE.

    Shame!

    ReplyDelete
  59. Hey Fadi,

    What questions is "IT" talking about? I don't know any of questions. Do you remember any questions asked of you?

    What questions are these?

    ReplyDelete
  60. Hey Fadi,

    'IT" says we are not ADVANCING the argument.

    Gee, that's funny.

    I could have sworn we were having a nice warm fuzzy conversation over hot steaming mugs of Palestinian-Lebanese blood.

    Fadi, what do you suppose "IT" means by saying you are INVENTING things.

    What things are being 'invented'?

    The only invention I have seen is this so-called 'jew' claims to be a "chosen" one.

    But Fadi, "IT" doesn't even believe in God, Jesus, or the other prophets.

    What INVENTION is this? To be a 'chosen" one and at the same time commit murder, rape, and theft of a land and people.

    Sounds to me that "IT" and its ilk invented those peanut butter and kethchup sandwiches.

    Now this ridiculous 'INVENTION' of a notion that Einstein was an atheist.

    Nothing like soggy peanut butter and ketchup sandwiches to go with all that Palestinian and Lebanese blood.

    Just the way the fake jews like it.

    Perhaps a patent to go with?

    ReplyDelete
  61. It is well known that Einstein was one of many famous 20th century Arab scientists ....

    [refer earlier comment on supremist complexes]
    +

    I compare the achievements of Israel relative to the Arab countries over the last 60 years, I can only be optimistic about the future.
    [achievements of Israel: genocide, war crimes, invasions, defense industry, blood diamonds, white slavery, resource robbery.. ACHIEVMENTS INDEED.. ISRAEL ISRAEL UBER ALLES - you NAZI?]
    +

    When the Arabs stop fighting among themselves, adopt liberal democracies and advance technologically, then I will be worried.

    [? - tell me, is a Falasha jew your equvillant or do you dump his/her blood in trash bins ?]
    +

    The Arabs didn't understand that they made a mistake ...

    [yes,, the arabs are so thick headed they cannot just grasp that this loving people who are killing them day and night just WANTED PEACE.. STUPID ARABS?.. and the "Israelis" dont understand that they are murderere, worse, they think they are saints? Guess what, there's an arabic saying that Goes, a whore is most fluent when preeching chastity.]


    +

    Every time an Arab uses an image of Einstein, it helps a Zionist university. Thank you for liking Einstein and supporting my studies! I wish all Arabs were like him!

    [huh?]
    +
    If the Arabs were saints, there would have been much more international pressure on Israel.

    [oh yes, and if Hitler was not a saint, the world wouldn't have stood by for years why the Jews turned into fertilizer? How's that for an argument on international support? Reminder: the same world who stands blind to one crime, stands blind to the other.. so don't celebrate just yet!]

    +
    It is the Palestinians that don’t have a country and nobody cares. Do you see anybody bothered by what is happening in Gaza?

    ["nobody" cares. well guess what, you're wrong, WE care, and WE are bothered. If you're not bothered by what Israel has done to Gaza and to West Bank and to Lebanon, then I'm afraid you are "nobody" in your own words] Nobody cared while Jews turned into SOD in the 1940s, then the world woke up. The Jewish refugee ships were turned back in mid-ocean.. NOBODY cared.. how's that for a comparison?]

    Keep teaching the world not to care, and when it's your turn once more, you can go to the weeping wall for one last time and kiss it goodbye- time permitting???


    I'm sure you have a good explanation. Give it a shot...

    How appropriate a phrase.. a shot.

    Replace the word Arabs with "Blacks," or why not "Niggers," or why not "Judens," or why not "Latinos," and tell me if it sounds right after a while?

    Guess what, it doesn't.
    Guess what, it's anti-semitic,
    Guess what, you will pay for your own words with your own hands.

    Guess what, I cannot find any article on the Wikipedia you are referring too, someone must have deleted it?

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hey Rhian,

    That sandwich is already marketed around the world, they call it self-defense..

    But it just turned sour!

    ReplyDelete
  63. What is REALLY sad is that a lot of "ITS" own cannot stand anything about 'israel' and what 'israel' stands for.

    Which is why they stopped being Zionists.

    THey woke up and saw the light.

    All 'israel' will ever be is a big fat leech.

    Without all that host blood to help shed Middle Eastern children blood, - which is all 'israel' can accomplish - israel is just a shell of an empty bug.

    A complete mockery created by phoney creation of God's "Chosen" in the 20th and 21rst century.

    Yes Fadi, the zionist sandwiches are mighty SOUR.

    ReplyDelete
  64. e,

    I think know enough of you to avoid going into depth of things. There is no way out of this except war. I'm sorry for that, but you leave no room for dialogue. I can say this though out as politely as I can, SCREW the 1947 UN resolution. Sorry ladies, I apologize for using the word "resolution."

    History – on your part was a large mistake on the human-rights and a disgrace to human dignity or rights, or to ethics. Yet, you claim being victorious. While I keep upholding my views that human life is sacred and should not be demeaned by war and blood shed, you leave no choice to yourself but your false claims and false views of history.

    Guess what buddy, lying bloodsuckers that are the Zionist mobs got their way once, fooled the world some of the time, but they wont do that all of the time, or forever. Unfortunately, they cannot see beyond their noses.

    When buses blow up in Tel Aviv and Le Zion Richeon right next to your home, you should know that the end is coming eventually, YOUR end. You should also know that you and us had the chance to stop this while you could be opening up for dialogue and giving up the fallacies and the false victim playing and string of lies. Guess what, despite all of our attempts, you are incorrigible, serves you right what you get yourselves into.

    When the Palestinians storm back into their land, you, or your bloody handed -bloody minded descendants will pay the price of your arrogance.

    In respect to my "Arab Jewish" lineage, I will conclude with this phrase from Exodus - "Wherever hurt is done, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, bruise for bruise, wound for wound."

    It's a two way formula by the way!
    You do the math.

    ReplyDelete
  65. To the sad and lethargic "IT" from the House of Horrors, I mean 'israel'. Well same thing.

    Let's wait patiently for the future and see what it will bring.

    R.

    ReplyDelete
  66. e,

    I have a small confession. I just pulled a game on you to try to get a few points across. I was trying to explain how "we" view things. If you just replaced the word "Arabs" with "Zionists" you would get our point through CLEARLY.

    You say: Saying that somebody is lying without backing it, is not an argument, it is propaganda. Just tell me where I am lying and we will discuss that issue.

    "Israel" has, since its inception, used Propaganda. Now we both agree that throwing accusations that are not constructive, can of course distort the discussion, but do not change facts. "Israel" is a master of Propaganda.

    You say: Being afraid to go into detail in an issue shows you are not confident of your views or don't have a good argument.

    How much into detail of issue by issue would you like to go. Once things get into a critical point, you immediately jump away. I repeatedly tried to tell you, let us discuss "Israel," and we can later discuss other issues. A melange of issue creates babble, not results.


    You say: Choosing only parts of history that are to your liking without looking at the whole picture is not a way forward in an honest debate.

    I bow to that statement. History (and that is my field), is related to social, economic, cultural, environmental, and political factors. We are not debating why things happen, we were assessing things in a certain perspective to move things forward, not to exchange accusations. If we assume that the "Israeli"-Palestinian issue is a body with two hands, I was simply proposing to deal with the "Israeli" faults - Simply because, while Arabs were not faultless, I was proposing to go Chronologically, I think we should disentangle the issues one by one, and "cure" them accordingly.

    You Say: Repeating the cliches that Arabs have made for 100 years is not going to get you anywhere either.

    I say, repeating the clichés that Zionists have made for 100 years is not going to get you anywhere. Now we are in agreement.


    Endorsing suicide bombing and threatening me is no way to get sympathy for your cause.

    Endorsing a war on my country, and actually threatening my life, and the life of my family, loved ones, and friends in July and August was no way to get sympathy for "your" cause – KHIZBOLLAH or no KHIZBOLLAH, Devil or no devil, Iran or no Iran, lovingly or not unlovingly no matter what the cause. Anyway, call it a small demo of your state's own crafts. I repeatedly tried to explain that the alternatives are destructive, (please read what I said). You read it as a threat; I read it as a fact-waiting-to happen. See the difference. I am crying wolf because THERE IS A WOLF. It is heading your way. I'm not saying we won't hurt, let me worry about that. I was saying that by the time we're done with you if things go bad, the results are devastating. If you claim you are as powerful as you are to destroy, then you should be aware that power is a two way sword. I'm not saying the "Israel" will blow itself up using its own nuclear arsenal (hmm…) but I am saying that arrogance and mulishness will create a shock wave back. Hatred, fear, pain, humiliation, murder, genocide aggravate. If they are coming stronger from your side, you should be careful that when it snaps back at you, there won't be anybody of you left to tell.

    Oh, by the way, don’t play victim please, or if you plan to do that, keep us a side of the Wailing Wall for our own Madonna Act 


    When I saw that we were not going anywhere, I thought I'd scare you with the alternative, war. I'm glad you are sensible enough to look into what I wrote.

    Warning: Evading the 1947 WAS on PURPOSE. We Arabs have been asking some questions repeatedly. All we wanted was a YES or NO. All I had to do is pull one trick of "I have the right to remain silent," and I began to antagonize you, more or less! Again, "Israel'' is a master of that.

    I told you I'm part "Jewish," Genetically! Only I can be devious in a constructive manner. Of course, if I blow it up, it can be for the same reason as well.

    You say: You know what, why don't you ask me a question and we can debate that?

    Before I do that, We can start with this: Do you understand the above?

    - Yes, or No.

    ReplyDelete
  67. e,

    I think I got a question, I need to clarify before we go any further that you acknowledge what I wrote, and understand it clearly.

    Hence, your only point of disagreement was that "Israel" did not use propaganda?

    I'm not playing a game here, I just need to set the limits of this discussion.

    ReplyDelete
  68. I also need to know your first name, your age, sex, marital status, and the colony you live in. You dont have a blog, and I would like to know whom I'm talking to.

    Demo below:
    My name is Fadi, I'm male, 31, single and willing, I live in the city of Saida.

    ReplyDelete